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From the beginning of movies to the 1970s, thousands of Westerns were made, with millions of shots fired


Directors like John Ford, Howard Hawks and especially Sam Peckinpah had real guns on their sets. They fired so many shots you could never count them. Peckinpah used more ammunition in The Wild Bunch than was used in the actual Mexican Revolution, And nobody died for real.

Sure, there were Jon Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee' s deaths in the 80s and 90s, but those films were not Westerns. The people who worked on Westerns back then had a feel for the West and an understanding of guns. They did not hire little pink-haired, nose-pierced, tattooed 25 year old girls as Weapons Advisers. They did not star flaming Liberal actors, either, for the most part.

I guess it's just going along with the trend. People in the past did not need warning labels on their hot coffee or telling them not to eat detergent or drink car battery acid, either.

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Alec Baldwin is too important for basic gun safety is basically what it boils down too. Yeah, the 24 YO fuckwit armourer is partially to blame but the actor using the firearm is the last link in the safety chain. DON'T POINT A FUCKING FIREARM AT ANYTHING YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY. It's really not rocket science.

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yeah but what u forgot to look at was that he really wanted to get that cool shot for his gay cowboy movie sooooooo he had no other choice but to kill that poor innocent mother. fuck those cops tho who kill the perps in hostage situations, they are racist and should be defunded!! cops aren't famous libturd hollywood actors, they are little people and arent allowed to pull the trigger on real guns!!!!!!

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Wow - this has gone south fast. One ass jack OP and two ass jack replies right off the bat. Good lord, my head is spinning from this spin factory. I don't think anyone cares about the person who was killed, it's balls to the wall to make up gun facts and apply them here. Sad, very sad.

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what is sad is a anti gun libturd who hates Murica and want to take away its citizens God given gun rights killed an innocent mother all so he could make a film fetishizing gun violence and profit from it

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Its trumpers that are doing this.

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Yea. But, surely they dont buy guns off the street to make westerns. I'm sure movie guns, though real will never have had real bullets anywhere near them. But this armourer allegedly loaded it and was taking potshots.and left live rounds in it. Btw. Was that the only live round? Or was it loaded up?

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I was under the impression that any firearm on a film/TV set will be blank fire adapted. I.e. made to be incapable of chambering/loading a live round. It seems when they introduced actual firearms with live rounds somewhere nearby for plinking, one of these firearms found it's way into the armourer's collection. I could be wrong, but I really can't see non adapted guns legitimately being on a film set.

That's another question I would like the answer to. It's immediately apparent there are rounds in the cylinder of a revolver, especially if fully loaded. You'd be able to see them with a brief glance. You'd have to be incredibly stupid not to verify yourself, especially if you were planning on pulling the trigger during a rehearsal. Anyone who says actors have no responsibility is simply wrong. Yes, in properly funded productions, the armourer will hand "hot" firearms to actors just before a scene and take them away after and they're told not to mess with them. I gather not even clear malfunctions. But a "cold" gun? I'd sure as fuck check it was 100% empty personally if I was an actor. I seem to recall even as a child, Natalie Portman when shooting Leon was fully clued up on firearm safety for her and her parent's peace of mind.

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and it's safer to jaywalk than use a crosswalk

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probably is if u use crosswalk without looking

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Many people don't look when they use the crosswalk because they're so ingrained/NPC'd in the safety system. Jaywalking on the other hand requires you to be aware of your surroundings. I've seen many people just walk right away on a yellow before red or walk when the beep noise sounds while still looking down on their brain drain devices.

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i watch a bunch of gore videos online so i never look at my phone while crossing street and am alway alert

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Are you mentally ill? Not trying to be mean, just genuinely wondering

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ur mentally ill if u dont watch gore videos. it is educational to see how dangerous the world is and act accordingly. it is a shame all the best sites are down, internet is not what it used to be :( dont mess with the mexican cartel or with chinese made elevators or escalators. take the stairs if u ever visit china

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One time I was watching a gore video about someone crossing the street while I was crossing the street and I got clipped by a taxi. Lessons learned...

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yeah u gotta watch gore videos in the comfort of your own bed not in the spooky wacky outdoors

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It's like an Escher drawing. A man watching a gore video about a man watching a gore video about a man watching a gore video about a man watching a gore video while crossing the street and getting clipped by a taxi.

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somewhere in the multiverse that is happening right now

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I always look both ways using a crosswalk. In 2009, a car actually tried to hit me while I was walking on the crosswalk.

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You were nearly immortalized in a gore video industry.

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That must have been KITT's evil twin KARR. Or it could have been Christine, I guess. I don't know many other evil sentient cars. Did you call Officer Dibble?

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Very funny. Actually it was scary experience.

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No doubt. The wording just gave me an image of a driverless car trying to run someone down. That's just my humor, no offense intended.

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Think of all of Clints westerns, or Butch Cassidy.. insane amounts of gunplay in all those

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Check this out for insane amounts of gunplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ysVoV3x5Zo

Filmed in Mexico with hundreds of extras handling firearms at the same time, including a machine gun and explosions and NO real deaths or injuries whatsoever.

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only takes one black swan to prove they exist

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The point I am making is that in the past, when everything was supposedly so much simpler and primitive, this kind of accident never happened. The "black swan" only appeared to the sophisticated, tech-savvy, moviemakers of the modern era.

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Lol at the dudes just mowing everyone down with the infinite ammo gattling gun and the guy calling her a bitch before killing her. I think the way they film is different in the past as well because I see so much scene changes from taking the shot then switch right next to a death scene.

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Well, the machine gun used is a belt-fed model, so it could fire a heck of a lot of shots before reloading. The editing was part of Sam Peckinpah's style. He would film guys shooting in normal speed, then slow down the film for the blood spatter, etc. etc. It was supposed to simulate the temporal distortion people actually feel when they are in a violent situation like combat.

Calling the woman a bitch before shooting her, even though she had shot him in the back first, would definitely bring out hordes of protesters and cancelers if it was in a movie today.

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They fired so many shots you could never count them. Peckinpah used more ammunition in The Wild Bunch than was used in the actual Mexican Revolution .... And nobody died for real.


Impressive, but look how many shots the stormtroopers took with those laser weapons without hitting anything.

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and all cobra fighter pilots successfully ejected

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Straight up incompetence that's probably gonna make big changes in the industry and ruin action movies.

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I heard some activist is already proposing "Alyna's Law" that will require movie companies to use only airsoft guns or deactivated firearms (barrel sealed up) and to have actors mime recoil and add the gunshots in post-production via CGI. A hundred years of safe movies using blank guns and Alec Baldwin fucks it all up in one shot.

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On NPR tonight they had Mike Tristano as a guest, a non-union armorer/gun-supplier who has reportedly done 600 movies/television shows. Naturally, he's against CGI because the muzzle flash/smoke/racking of the slide will affect his bottom line -- I mean, "look fake." The vast majority of people would probably never notice. He said there's no reason to ever have live ammunition. Also, guns are never, ever pointed at people (the production shoots at angle to give that impression). So are rubber guns pressed up to an actor's temple?

He was inclined to primarily blame the armorer.

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So are rubber guns pressed up to an actor's temple?

I watched a movie yesterday where a priest puts a revolver in his own mouth and blows the back of his head off. Gun sure looked real. But then I guess it would.

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It may well do, but to be honest I don't see what that would achieve. I'm sure the systems already in place for safe weapon handling on a movie set are excellent and 100% fit for purpose. The problem is that no system can function if it's not operating. And if people aren't doing it it's not operating. Exactly the same applies to anything new they might come up with; it means nothing if people don't do it.

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“not to eat detergent or drink car battery acid, either.”

Eli Wallach accidentally drank battery acid on the set of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. 😄

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The key word here is "accidentally".

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You have a point there.

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Westerns go way back before the 70s.

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From the beginning of movies to the 1970s

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Yes. I misread. Thanks

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The sad thing is this bizarre incident completely removed any coverage from the 13 Christian charity workers being held hostage by a criminal gang in Haiti.

They are probably thinking they are getting great wall to wall news coverage..but no... the news is full of talking about the Alex Baldwin incident 🙄.

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Well, the machine gun used is a belt-fed model, so it could fire a heck of a lot of shots before reloading. The editing was part of Sam Peckinpah's style. He would film guys shooting in normal speed, then slow down the film for the blood spatter, etc. etc. It was supposed to simulate the temporal distortion people actually feel when they are in a violent situation like combat.

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Interestign about all that Wild Bunch slaughter (both at the climax and in the opening):

All those bullets flying indeed but...the "hits" were wired blood packs on the victim's bodies(front and back, at Peckinpahs' request.) Perhaps not all that many guns were pointed at people -- one woman shot at Holden's back, but he was a major star, I'll bet THAT gun was checked.

Peckinpah had the backing of a Warner Brothers studio boss -- who LOVED the dailies on the movie -- to use all the money he wanted to buy more fake bullets, more "blood pack squibs" and hits for tables and walls to receive, more bloodied costumes, more extras and more TIME to film that final battle for as long as he wanted.

Meanwhile, you can bet that seasoned pros worked the guns on that movie. Peckinpah was famous for firing sub-par talent "on the spot'(or sub-par talent quit.)

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Calling the woman a bitch before shooting her, even though she had shot him in the back first, would definitely bring out hordes of protesters and cancelers if it was in a movie today.

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It was considered pretty rough in 1969. John Wayne never said that. Randolph Scott never said that. But The Wild Bunch somehow made heroes out of very, very mean and violent men. Borgnine uses a woman as a human shield in the final gunfight and another old woman is trampled earlier.

The message was supposedly tied to the Vietnam War (though Peckinpah said, no not really): the world was a savage place.

In the opening scene, LITTLE KIDS are seen torturing scorpions with ants and then setting them all ablaze. Savagery is even among children...

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I think you replied to the wrong thread.

I am kinda a news junkie. The 13 American/Canadian hostages in Haiti has all but disappeared from the news.

Maybe the F.B.I. requested news networks for no new coverage so they can do their job. Giving the kidnappers extra publicity could increase their bargaining power.

Hard to think that Americans just don't care.

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I think you replied to the wrong thread.

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Oops. I'm not good with these things. Sorry. Well, it replies to SOME post around here.

But since I came to you, I should at least engage with your comments:

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I am kinda a news junkie. The 13 American/Canadian hostages in Haiti has all but disappeared from the news.
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"Click-able news has more of a sensationalistic aspect to it, It seems. Since early September, I have watched these stories get really big and then "pass on " to the next:

Three out of four people taking fentanyl-laced cocaine in LA, die. The sole survivor is a hottie stand-up comedian/Playboy playmate type.

Gabby Petito/Brian Laundrie. I think this "kicked in" because of the callous start of the story: he drove HER van home(leaving her behind), used HER debit card, went home, lawyered up and stonewalled everybody for days. This created a "rage factor" which grew and grew as she was found strangled and he went fugitive. Now...all solved. She's dead. He's dead. We'll keep wondering about the relationship, though.

And just as Brian and Gabby drifted off the front page...enter Alec Baldwin and Rust.

Irony: the news will fade on ALL of these folks. The Playmate comedian is back playing clubs. Gabby and Brian will fall into the past. And even this "Rust" situation will likely go on for a few years as a series of criminal trials and civil cases that will only occasionally make the news. News cycles eventually cycle down to nothing.

When John Landis was under legal fire for the deaths on The Twilight Zone in 1982, his fellow directors volunteered to appear in his next few movies(especially "into the Night" of 1985) in "solidarity" for an on-set mishap that killed two kids and Vic Morrow. Alec shall work again.




CONT

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Maybe the F.B.I. requested news networks for no new coverage so they can do their job. Giving the kidnappers extra publicity could increase their bargaining power.

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I would guess that is a strong possibility. Publicity is catnip for kidnappers.

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Hard to think that Americans just don't care.

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Theres a lot of misery to choose from...its hard to keep up.

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