MovieChat Forums > Jean-Claude Van Damme Discussion > Why did he forsake the martial arts genr...

Why did he forsake the martial arts genre?


He made his name off of 80s films like Bloodsport, Kickboxer and Lionheart. But by the time the 90s came around, he had apparently grown bored of the martial arts genre and decided he just wanted to do straight action movies. He would only star in one more true martial arts movie, The Quest, in 1996.

What happened? I get that he'd want to chase mainstream success with films like Universal Soldier and Timecop--and that's fine--but it seems like he would still want to occasionally return to the genre that brought him success in the first place. This especially seems like it would be the case since he's a legitimate martial artist and karate was very important to him when he was younger.

As a kid who loved Van Damme, I was pretty disappointed when just quit making the kinds of movies that turned me into a fan in the 80s. It almost felt like a betrayal.

reply

Perhaps he knew his body would not support the demands of "true" martial arts movie forever and wanted to get a head start on other opportunities. Arnie kind of did the same with moving from straight-up action films into comedies.

It could be that agents of these talents who are very strong with certain genres are encouraged to seek other genres in order to expand their capabilities over time. To not "have all their eggs in one basket" as they say.

reply

Well like I said, I get that he would want to branch out. But did he have to quit making martial arts movies COMPLETELY?

It seems he'd have still wanted to throw one into the mix every once in a while to satisfy his fans and pay homage to his roots.

reply

I can surmise different things, but I don't know Mr. Van Damme personally. Let us remember that JCVD was very involved in heavy drug abuse that became known during Knock-Off/Double Team era. Many drug abusers can take years of hiding their habit very successfully, so I can only assume that around the time of The Quest, he was already into it, since that would only be 1 year prior to Double Team. Why does this matter? Well, because, drugs make you prioritize different things, they alter your mind state. We can only guess what was going on in his head on what decisions he was making on a career path at that point.

Van Damme looked healthy during The Quest, and Double Team, but the fact is that he was involving heavy amounts of stunt doubles at this time. He wanted to be in the movies, but not do any of the heavy work. That's just a fact. Watch Knock-Off, it's actually disconcerting just how much Van Damme does NOT do in that movie, the stunt doubles are obvious. I've thought about the age factor, because I was heavy into BMX in my youth, and by the end of my 20's I had to give it up just because I was already feeling the loss of flexibility and it was becoming harder to perform tricks, not easier, especially when my time was limited for that activity due to working a job to survive. I've kind of tossed the age theory aside though, because actors, especially if stunt doubles are involved, can do action movies indefinitely, even martial artists, through clever editing techniques, and now with CGI help. Look at Donnie Yen, he's just as old as JCVD and still puts up good martial arts performances. So age? Nah, I've given that up.

I really think it was just bad decision making because of the drugs and his oversize ego. I'm a huge fan of his, but he's still a flawed human like all of us.

reply

Indeed, I am certainly acquainted with his drug habit. As you say, he looks healthy in The Quest. However, I think that in Double Team he looks noticeably smaller than I had ever seen him before. Still defined, but with less mass. I have always assumed the drugs had something to do with that.

I definitely don't think that age has much at all to do with it. As you say, other martial artists have worked way past the point where Van Damme was when he stopped throwing impressive kicks on screen. You've already mentioned Donnie Yen. I'll also point out that Scott Adkins is almost 10 years older now than Van Damme was when he made The Quest and Scott still looks pretty impressive. And Michael Jai White is in his mid-50s and is still an imposing force.

So no, age definitely isn't it.

Maybe you're right that he just stopped giving a fuck. I definitely have noticed that in his movies in recent years, when there actually is any hand-to-hand fighting, that it's really up-close, choppy editing, and that on the rare occasion there's a wide shot it's taken from 40 feet away, so it's probably a stunt double. That's a shame.

Guys like the aforementioned Donnie Yen, Scott Adkins and Michael Jai White really seem to have rock-solid discipline. They never lost their love of martial arts, and it's always been a part of their lives, both physically and philosophically.

You may not know this, but there were a few martial arts films that were announced for Van Damme that even had posters mocked up but they never came to fruition. One was called The Monk and I remember reading about it in the early 00s:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0H2evUV4AABvTV.jpg

The other was simply called Karate and I read about this one sometime in the last 10 years:

https://cityonfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/KaratePoster.jpg

Both simply evaporated and Van Damme never talked about them again.

reply

With a Hong Kong fight choreographer, The Monk could have been his version of American Shaolin (which had Corey Yuen on it).

reply

Van Damme largely turning away from the martial arts film genre in the 90s & onward with the one exception is an interesting observation and something that I had never even thought about. Perhaps it was easy for me to overlook because for one, I was introduced to him in the 90s and he still always incorporated his signature martial arts moves in his action films. But yeah I doubt there was much more to it than the fact that action movies had a much more mainstream box office appeal than straight martial arts genre films, so that's what he decided to focus on.

reply

I got involved with martial arts as a kid largely because of Van Damme. There were other influences as well, such as Bruce Lee and Sho Kosugi, but Van Damme was my favorite on-screen fighter.

I remember when he made Universal Soldier and Hard Target, I was like, eh, okay, whatever. I thought they were okay but they weren't what I was really tuning in to see. But I kept thinking that with his NEXT film he would get back on the martial arts track and it just never happened except for The Quest.

And what I found was that slowly over time I lost a lot of interest in him as a performer. I remember seeing Legionairre sitting on the shelf at Blockbuster and not feeling much of an urge to rent it and I knew then that things had really changed in terms of my being a fan.

reply

Other than Cobra Kai there really doesn't seem to be much of a market for martial arts flicks. I wouldn't necessarily blame van Damme for that.

reply

Sure, but you're talking now in 2020. Van Damme hasn't made a martial arts movie since 1996.

Plenty of martial arts films have come out between then and now, and many became quite popular.

reply

I agree but I would argue that martial arts movies were at their zenith when he was in his prime.

reply

No offence, but the simple answer is.....he's not very good.

Without being too catty, most of Van Damme's movie fight scenes are dull (very flat, forced and mechanical) Beyond his flashy roundhouse kicks, his Martial Arts abilities are pretty poor....he has little, (if any) basic hand-to-hand skills (exemplified in his bizarre habit of constantly flexing his muscles after every punch for around 5-10 seconds, whilst making 'Bruce Lee-like' battle cries) and the added slo-mo just buries it further into that dated '70's' style.
The likes of Jet Li, Donnie yen and (especially) Steven Seagal came along, and were seasoned all-rounders. Seagal's style (regardless of what you think of him) was much more quicker, efficient and brutal (plus he has lightning-fast hands) Advancing years, deterred Van Damme from performing flashy spinning kicks (which ludicrously entailed that his opponents stand completely still, whilst he spun round) Whereas audiences, grew tired of those same spinning kicks (and splits)
Without such 'kicks' Van Damme has next to no fighting skills (audiences soon got tired of seeing Chuck Norris punching in the 90's too) But because Seagal's 'Aikido' didn't rely on acrobatics or spinning-kicks, his schtick had a longer shelf-life than his peers.
Therefore, it was logical for Van Damme to make a shift from Martial-Arts flicks to generic action movies (I don't blame him, if only from a 'business' sense)

Thankfuly, better action directors came along (like Tsui Hark or Ringo Lam) and had the decency to add a bit of well-needed 'oomph' to his (already limited) repetoire (but by the mid 90's, the stunt-doubles were already required)

BTW, I like a lot of Van Damme's later (non-MA-exclusive) stuff (although I'm baffled as to why people idolize shite like 'Bloodsport'?) Kickboxer and No Retreat No Surrender were much better showcases for his (limited) talents.

reply

The best technique seagal had was when he shit himself when gene lebell choked him out.

reply

it's an urban-myth that came around at the dawn of the internet chat-rooms. As much as you (and other haters) would have liked it to happen.....it didn't.
People (who were present on the set) have all stated that no such incident took place (and let's face it, even someone with an ego as big as Seagal, would likely have ever put themselves in a position to be choked in the first place....if only from either 'vanity' or even an 'Insurance' standpoint) Even Gene La Bell has denied such an incident took place (this is the same guy who claimed to have kicked the crap out of Bruce Lee?)

It never happened (as much as you want it to?) Regardless of such, none of it detracts from my assessment of Van Damme (which I notice you didn't counter at all?) I'm fully aware of his 'Van Varanberg 'point-fighting' career

reply

Im not arguing...I think they're all gay.

reply

Van Damme sucks too

All that stuff may be fake...I was just bumping the thread.

reply

At least van Damme really fought a couple times. The others you listed never have. I want to see people that can really do it. Donnie Yen's sil Lim Tau is weak https://youtu.be/kIYeq_v6p0A

reply

How many Blood Sport can he do?

Martial arts flicks are quite limited as story and as market ...

reply

Tell that to China. They've been making them regularly for decades.

reply

Last I checked we are not in China. That's why I said "and market". The us market is not that crazy about martial arts movies, not anymore ...

reply