Moana seems to be a great improvement from most Disney princesses. - Moana (2016) Discussion

[–] Herengone 7 years ago

I think she and Elsa are the only young women who are actually expected to actually lead their people. Obviously Elsa wasn't prepped very well, but Moana's parents were allowing the villagers to consult her about smaller issues so she could get used to making good choices. I also think there is a level of intimacy in village culture that helps. She's not hidden away in a palace (or underwater cave) with no sense of her domain. She's walking around and interacting with the villagers on a daily basis, and there is something about looking people in the eye and speaking with them that makes it harder to be selfish when you see that they admire and trust you.

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[–] annedoe 7 years ago

Snow White
Aurora
Rapunzel
Merdia
Elsa

will or are (in Snow White's case after death of step-mother, she is Queen) queen of their countries

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[–] Herengone 7 years ago

You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. lol Being a princess/queen and an actual leader is not the same thing. Once again, Moana was the only one who was given any duties or responsibilities directly related to being a true leader. Briar Rose and Snow White ran around in the woods, Merida rode around shooting arrows, and Rapunzel was stuck in a tower and totally unaware of her lineage. Moana is the only one that is clearly being groomed to be the rightful leader. She's tasked with everything from fixing roofs and teaching dance class to trying to keep her entire island from starving. Then she apparently teaches her entire village to wayfind once she gets back. Tall order compared to other characters whose biggest moments involve dancing with animals, using their hair athletically, or winning a shooting competition to avoid being a child bride.

Once again, I'm leaving out Elsa because I got the feeling that she was taught a little about being a ruler, but not as much as she needed.

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[–] Andthatismytwocents 7 years ago

Despite her "fling" with John Smith Pocahantas did not ignore her people

Mulan's PRIMARY focus was saving her father

So Moana is not quite THAT unique

AND AS to the unnamed Mermaid

IN the original story the mermaid rescues Prince falls in love tries to be with him fails

Disney's take she was fascinated BEFORE she fell in love with "human"

ALSO EVERY DISNEY PRINCESS (EXCLUDING Moana and Elsa YEAH I KNOW SHE IS A QUEEN)IS SOMEWHAT MOTIVATED BY LOVE some MORE THEN OTHERS

This applies to all preceding Elsa and Moana AND IF THAT MERMAID DID NOT EXIST IN DISNEY FILMS.......................

you WOULD NOT HAVE ANY OF these modern "Classics" (including Frozen and Moana)

Just as if Snow White did not exist THERE WOULD BE NO ANIMATED FILMS AT ALL ANYWHERE

Yes Ariel is flawed just as almost any human BUT DO NOT exclude her for being young ALL the previous ones are no less guilty

This is why Disney films have many a problem with viewers then and now
and will continue too

And Moana needs help too from the ocean to her family to Dwayne Johnson

MAKING HERE SOMEWHAT realatable

AND THAT IS MY TWO CENTS

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[–] UnvoicedApollo1 7 years ago

The difference between Moana & Pocahontas is that Pocahontas like Ariel shirks her everyday duty. It's only until after the white man arrives does she start thinking about her responsibility and even then she has to fall in love before she takes any effective action. Moana on the other hand gives up her dreams and takes up the responsibility expected of a future chief.

Moana is different from Mulan in that Mulan was not being groomed to be a leader but a wife. She bucked tradition whereas Moana brought tradition back.

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[–] ginnyjinxedandhanshotritafirst 7 years ago

Mulan is not a Princess. She's not the daughter of a monarch. She's a soldier in the imperial army.

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[–] PrincessKneesaa (57) 5 years ago

Yes it’s true she’s a soldier but remember everyone bowed down to her in the Imperial city as well as the Imperial Palace? She’s an honorary Princess like Pocahontas is. Two heroines who are apart of the Official Disney Princess franchise.

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[–] carrot_handvo 7 years ago

Agreed. Ariel was a terrible role model for women (no scratch that - for all human beings), selling her voice because she had a crush on someone...

These stories aren't about being a Role Model
they're about teaching us a LESSON

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[–] 7 years ago

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[–] carrot_handvo 7 years ago

We should learn to NOT do the things that she does. It's a cautionary tale.

That's the way most of these old tales are. They're not supposed to be role models. They're supposed to be scary lessons of what not to do.

Yes SOME are heroic characters that we try to emulate (called heroes journey)..but Little Mermaid is NOT one of those stories. In the original she dies and turns into seafoam. Most Grimm and other classic or ancient stories are about what Not to do.

Do not be a reckless youth and runaway to marry the first guy you see. Don't be gullible and let strangers (sea witch) steal your innocence. There could be potentially fatal results. When you are a teen you really don't 'know it all'. Sometimes parents really do know best.
and she dies
rip
the end

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[–] Andthatismytwocents 7 years ago

I find it interesting to note that the original story Disney's Little Mermaid is based on gets NO WHERE NEAR the hate the film does
since in the film the mermaid sets of to be human after rescuing prince where as in Disney's film she has a VAST interest in Humanity

(HELL everyone I lived the mermaids life for nearly thirty years sans the suicidem due to unrequited love Don't think I have not contemplated it ESPECIALLY AFTER THE LAST 25 YEARS OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS DESTROYING AND ATTEMPTED DESTRUCTION OF LANDMARKS CITIES SICK EGOTISTICAL PETTY PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS POSTING OPINIONS ON A FORMAT THAT 12 YEARS AGO WAS CONSIDER A JOKE???????)

UNLIKE most people I KNEW the original Story hence why I went to see it to see HOW Disney would bring in the happy ending

Also knew the Story of Beauty and the Beast till Disney (Jeffery Katzenburg TURNED it int o essentially the best word I can come up with here on the fly

Propaganda

Taking important things and lessons and turning it into trivial nonsense

VIRTUALLY EVERY GOOD THING ABOUT Beauty and the Beast is "taken " from the other film Little mermaid From Belle's appearAnce (Again can you say Sherri Stoner?) to songs(Menkan Ashman) etc

The only thing that sets it apart is whet is TAKEN FROM THE ORIGINAL FRENCH TALE

YES SHE DOES SACRIFICE HERSELF for her father and she is a kind person in comparrison to her TWO blood sisters

AND WHAT STARTED THIS WHOLE DAMM THING????????? AN OPINION ON A MOVIE THAT WITHOUT ANY DOUBT BETTER THEN FROZEN MAD BY THE SAME TEAM HO DID THAT "SELFISH" MERMAID FILM AND A FILM I DO LIKE WHY BECAUSE LIKE THE DAMM MERMAID IT TRIED TO BE DIFFERENT AND SUCCEEDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS NO LOVE THING HERE BE OT ONE NIGHT STAND MARRIAGE OR HAPPILY EVER AFTER

A FORMULA IN ALMOST EVERY DISNEY FILM MADE SINCE 1928

SO IN SHORT A PERSON IS SELFISH FOR WANTING TO BE WITH SOMEONE IN ANY CAPACITY EVEN IF IT IS UTTTERLY HOPELESS????????

Moana' strentgh is LOVE for herself is NOT a factor as it is for ALL the others
ADisney staple by the way right OR wrong

In short Moana is a great film and should be see BUT regretfully (AND BELIEVE ME I LEARNED THIS THE GOD DAMM HARD WAY) Not everyone likes the same things hence why Mermaid is a favorite film NO ONE respects me either

and it did NOT Trivialize itself to get me to like either film

AND THAT IS MY TWO CENTS

footnote Had a hell of a time logging on here just now and would not put it past ANYONE getting revenge on my WORTHLESS opinions

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[–] R_Kane (15828) a year ago

Brevity is the soul of wit.

You are witless.

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[–] UnvoicedApollo1 7 years ago

I think there's some confusion as to what we mean by taking up responsibility.

Yes, Kida is looking to save her people. Yes, Rapunzel takes her grown in the end and narration says she ruled.

What we don't see in these movies are the everyday responsiblities of a princess being groomed for her future position. We see Moana's decision making in such a capacity. This is what we mean by taking on their responsibility and how this is her impetus for her adventure.

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[–] 7 years ago

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[–] magnusplin 7 years ago

Ariel was a terrible role model for women

Because Elsa and Merida are such wonderful role models, right? *rolls eyes*

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[–] 7 years ago

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[–] magnusplin 7 years ago

Nice joke. 

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[–] babadook (51) 7 years ago

What's wrong with Elsa?

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[–] magnusplin 7 years ago

Point I'm trying to make is she's not motivated by her own selfish pursuits or interests. Unlike a certain mermaid who will remain nameless.

Ariel's a wonderful heroine, so the shade is unnecessary and pointless.

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[–] Therru_Babayaga 7 years ago

Usually it's all about what they want and what makes them happy.

Point I'm trying to make is she's not motivated by her own selfish pursuits or interests.

Rapunzel = Kidnapped girl who know nothing of the world and discover she is a princess only at the end of the movie, but she cared enough about Eugene to accept to be taken by Gothel at the end if she could save him, so not selfish.

Cinderella = Abused girl used as a slave and becomes a princess at the end of the movie, so she has no responsibility to any people, and it's hard to say that wishing to get out of this house is selfish.

Ariel = Youngest sister and not in-line for the throne, unlike Moana who is the next chief. So that's not even close compared to the situation of Moana. Also, she is fascinated and curious about a different world, so she is an explorer in some way, and quite opened to new things.

Aurora = Discover she is a princess really late in the film and then she is sent to sleep. Lives like a simple girl and think about love, no suprise there, nothing selfish in itself.

Belle = Smart and sweet girl who sacrifice her freedom for her father and becomes a princess only at the end of the movie. Where is the selfishness here?

Snow White = Banned by her evil step-mother, so it's a bit hard to be there for her people, and she shows moral strength, still being able to smile and make the most of it despite her dangerous situation. Still no selfishness here.

Tiana = Working-class woman who becomes a princess at the end because she marries a prince who has been destituted (so no right to the throne anymore) and opens her restaurant, she was not raised as a princess. Is doing everything you can to achieve your dream selfish, really?

Jasmine = Stuck in a system where she is just used to make alliance and babies, not groomed to be a responsible member of government, so yeah, a bit selfish and that makes sense.

Kida = Completely loyal to her people, nothing selfish here.

Merida = The only one who could fit your description, mostly a brat.

Mulan = Take the place of her father and saves China (so a bit like Moana), nothing about what she wants or makes her happy, but what her family needs.

Pocahontas = Mix between Ariel and Moana (goes beyond the preconception from her people and find a "forbidden love" and still can make the necessary sacrifice for her people).

Anna = Raised as a princess but no parents and a sister who shut her off, but still a good heart and much love for her sister and her kingdom.

Elsa = Repressed power, a lot of guilt, can't speak to anybody about it, so isolation makes sense, but still goes through at the end.

There is a lot of "Disney princesses hate" going out on the internet, and I think it's mostly unfair, and it's quite easy to debunk those critics, because it doesn't take into account the setting of the story and its focus.

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[–] Andthatismytwocents 7 years ago

An interesting point (BEFORE I throw in as handel implies)is the most selfless that you list (Kida) is the LEAST popular

Got many other "thoughts" here but want to see what happens

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[–] Smoked_Herring 7 years ago

She's also one of the most forgotten. Does anyone even remember Eilonwy or her movie?

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[–] Therru_Babayaga 7 years ago

Oh yeah, I really like Eilonwy's design and general attitude, it's too bad that the movie was really flat and forgettable, frankly, it always goes off my radar when I think about Disney movies. Good setting but terrible pacing and terrible main character and animal side-kick, and generally badly introduced characters and action. Disney was at a all-time low then, too bad, it could have been good to see them explore a darker story like that.

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[–] Smoked_Herring 7 years ago

I agree. That movie had a lot of potential going for it too based on its theme. It even introduced, possibly, the darkest Disney villain that could give small children nightmares.

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[–] magnusplin 7 years ago

 This. 100% this.

The Disney Princess hate is honestly ridiculous.
Also, there are tons of horrible fictional characters (Bella Swan from Twilight, Bloom from Winx Club, Ally Dawson from Austin & Ally, Rocky Blue from Shake it Up, etc...), and people choose to hate on the Disney Princesses (who are wonderful heroines)? It's ludicrous.

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[–] Therru_Babayaga 7 years ago

I think most people who don't like Disney princesses and Disney in general have actually seen very few of their movies, and just feel that talking about Disney as "stuffs for kids" or looking down on them make them automatically "adults", which of course only make them actually "childish".

I love Disney, I don't like everything they have done of course, but there are so much more to love and admire than to hate in what they have created, and not just in the animation department, no matter how old you are. In fact, the older you get, the more you can really appreciate what they have created.

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[–] Tinny-Tinette 7 years ago

Also, there are tons of horrible fictional characters (Ally Dawson from Austin & Ally)

What's wrong with Ally Dawson?

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[–] magnusplin 7 years ago

Unlikable, Mary-Sue (I know, that term is thrown around a lot, but in Ally Dullson's case, I think it's warranted), horribly written, annoying, speaks through her nose, boring, and has no real personality. The girl goes through more personality changes than the villain in Split.
Don't even get me started on Laura Marano's atrocious acting...

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[–] Furienna (3312) a year ago

Merida is maybe the most bratty Disney Princess, but I must say that it's because Elinor is a pretty bad mother.
They both learn a lesson before the end of the movie though.
Mulan confesses that she did what she did not only to save her father, but to find a way to prove herself.
But she's not selfish at all and turns down a position in the imperial court to return to her family.
Really though, I must agree with the rest of your post.
It is awful that some of the Disney princesses get so much hatred.

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[–] Smoked_Herring 7 years ago

Well, if you really think about it, a lot of Disney princesses seem to be modern improvements over the previous Disney princess films. Snow White, Cinderella, and Sleeping Beauty are clearly products of their time that also went on to be timeless classics. Those first three princesses are often subjected to criticism based on their gender roles compared to a lot of modern and 'more progressive' Disney princesses that succeeded them. Like how Ariel and Pocahontas for instances are comparatively more free-spirited, Mulan joins the army and fights her own battles to save China, Tiana works hard to achieve her goals, Anna cares for her sister --and the only member of her family she has left-- who shuts her out and also goes on a dangerous quest to save her kingdom, etc.

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