MovieChat Forums > The Corporation (2004) Discussion > A letter to all of the people who hate t...

A letter to all of the people who hate this movie.


Why do movies like this make you so pissed off? And I don't mean the corporate bigshots who are being attacked, but I'm talking to you, the everyday people who aren't even connected. Why does this bother you? I mean, this only presents facts. If you look into anything they are saying, the facts only back it up (and I am talking specifically about this documentary with this statement; obviously not ALL such documentaries have as much integrity). So where is the complaint? It's like you are in denile. It's not that you don't know corporations are preying on the developing minds of our children and that they value the US Dollar more than human happiness and safety. Everybody knows that. You just would rather not think about it because it shakes up your perfect little idea of how life is. You like the Gap; why would you want to think about the fact that they use sweatshops to make their clothes? Isn't easier to just pretend you didn't hear that part? Of course it is. And if you are going to go through the trouble of dumbing down your conscience so that it allows you to still buy these products without feeling an ounce of guilt, obviously you are going to be pissed at the person who tries to show you that things aren't so happy-go-lucky as they appear to be, and it that it might actually take a little concern and action on your part to fix these atrocities.

Well you know what? You piss me off. It people like you who make the fight against these problems harder. Because as long as you don't care and keep buying into any product/idea/etc that they push on you, they aren't going to stop. They've got a good thing going as far as they are concerned, so why would they?

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[deleted]

For the most part it is pretty acurate. Does it make a few mistakes? Sure. But you aren't going to make a 2 and 1/2 hour documentary and not make a few mistakes. But it does help give a more rounded view of what is happening. Are these corporations going to run commercials and point out their own flaws? Of course not. It's just good that somebody has decided to let people know the whole story. And they can be one sided with this, because the other side has already been well covered. But when you put it all together, it is easier to make an informed decision. Kathy Lee Gifford herself (so she says) didn't know what things were going on with the clothing line in her own name until somebody showed her. And this was her clothing line! If they hadn't done this, how long could the sweatshops in that clothing line continued? And if this was her buisness and she needed somebody to point these things out to her, don't we as well, if not even more so? These corporations don't give us this chance to see behind the scenes. They want us to believe they are perfect in everyway and only have the best intentions. And maybe some do. But if they don't, and if they aren't going to tell us, doesn't somebody need to let us know? At least so we can use our conscience, weigh all we have been given, and make our decision then?

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[deleted]

No, but you are ONLY focusing on the pieces of misinformation. You are ignoring the majority of this film's accuracy. Am I saying this is the capitalist messiah? No; I am just saying that if we are getting pumped nothing BUT lies from every other source, it's nice to have somebody trying to correct this, even if they make a few mistakes along the way.

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Some people, sadly, are simply resistant to clue...

I have opinions of my own, but I don't always agree with them - George Bush

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To me what is so bad about movies like this is it has a very complicated and vague thesis... that would take massive amounts of time to truly explore let alone understand and it cuts it down into in this case 140-some minutes.

The fact simply is that this movie is too self-righteous, there are elements of *beep* strewn about the movie none are too factually off to be out right lies but they distort the truth nonetheless. This is unfortunate, because I agree with some of the basic over-arching ideas, the imbalance of power between corporation and individual is unacceptable, but the fact is lying is just as unacceptable as the practices of the corporations. (basic one from the movie the exploitation of chinese labor, yea workers get paid VERY low wages but its not just multinational corporations often times they get paid slightly higher for the jobs for corporations then they would for doing similar jobs for the Chinese Government, so yes its exploitation but its not nearly as bad as it appears)

3 problems i had with ur post

1. What facts did you check?

2. What country have you been in that they are so happy to see the US dollar that they value it more then there own well-being? (I'm guessing thats just an exaggeration, it would fit considering how much you love this movie)

3. Just because I don't like this movie doesn't say *beep* about what I believe, since when did movies determine political beliefs? I try to buy stuff made in the use and I try to buy stuff from brands that are more reliable then the ones mentioned in the movie.

4. yea i got that pissed while writing this... im doing a #4 after I really hope you don't vote democrat.. because if you do your worse then the Corporations, the politicians, the CEO's, the people you hate that didn't like this movie, Michael Moore etc.

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4. yea i got that pissed while writing this... im doing a #4 after I really hope you don't vote democrat.. because if you do your worse then the Corporations, the politicians, the CEO's, the people you hate that didn't like this movie, Michael Moore etc.

Excuse me? What was that about Democrats again?

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I really need that Democrat line explained...

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Any film that attempts in the course of 2 1/2 hours to explain an endemic problem that's been around for a century or more, will have to sacrifice some methodology for the sake of expediency.

For most of a century, the population have been force-fed corporate and government propaganda, until it's becomes second nature to spread 'em wide open to receive the daily dosage.
Then along comes a 2 1/2 hour piece of, call it counter-propaganda, a very small ripple in a very large and indifferent/hostile pond, and some people who stumble upon this film, all of a sudden, will take it upon themselves to turn into fact checkers and snort indignant platitudes about "propaganda crap" or "factual inaccuracy", dismiss the movie wholesale, then go back to spreading 'em wide open for their unquestioning daily dosage, courtesy of their good friends from GM, McDonald's, Halliburton or Chiquita Banana.

Wouldn't it be something if these people could turn their razor-sharp fact checking abilities towards Big Business and the way it exploits and abuses both society and the environment, instead of attacking a small film that tries to spark a dialogue it that direction?
Somebody at least made the effort of swimming against the current to make The Corporation, yet what have the pundits done? Simple, they've struck an equilibrium: nothing on one side, saturation on the other, and don't even try to upset that balance. Like rubber, they will go back to a preprogrammed, minimum effort position. Hey look, Jack Bauer's coming up!

To restate, The Corporation can only go so far in the course of two hours, yet there's more great material elsewhere. For a more in-depth look at just how much we've been manipulated as a community during the last hundred years, go to Google Video http://video.google.com/?tab=wv and type in quotations "Adam Curtis", then select either of two of his BBC documentaries, The Trap http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0979263/ or The Century Of Self http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0432232/. Each documentary is divided into four parts, each part is about fifty minutes long. Both of these shows are a little bit like a red pill that allow you to see that you've been living in a state and corporate sponsored Matrix. If you like, there's also The Power Of Nightmares and The Mayfair Set by Mr Curtis.

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I think the same people who become fact checkers would do the same with any other film. The Corporation is flawed because it makes itself out to be the truth, or the honorable voice who knows -the truth-. This film is as slanted, selfish, and unforgiving as the corporations it attacks.

And any sort of propaganda exploits and abuses, even this anti-corporate one. A fact checker is against poor journalism, questionable facts, and slanted coverage. The Corporation does a disservice to its audience by being propaganda. An audience has to choose whose bull**** smells best or they have to figure out the facts for themselves.


...go with another movie - this movie fails to flesh out anything with real substance. Unless you want to understand what a few corporations are doing to help the environment.

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Sorry to resort to personal attacks, but you're such an idiot. "The film is unforgiving toward corporations" This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The film is exploring and analyzing the negative effects of the corporation in society. Whether or not you are persuaded by what it has to say is another thing; what the film presents is a generally sound thesis: which is that corporations are driven to maximize profits at whatever cost. Corporations have garnered so much legal influence that politicians represent corporations rather than people, where legislation reflects the interest of corporations rather than the well being of the populace at large. The film demonstrates this by examples. Your claim that the film fails to flesh out anything of real substance is itself a meaningless statement. If you are indifferent to the potentially harmful methods corporations prepare food products, for example, (with legislation supporting their right to do so) then that reflects on you as an idiot and not on the documentary who is trying to alert people to the ill effects of such practices.

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"For a more in-depth look at just how much we've been manipulated as a community during the last hundred years, go to Google Video..."

Irony anyone?

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No. Not really.

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"
For most of a century, the population have been force-fed corporate and government propaganda, until it's becomes second nature to spread 'em wide open to receive the daily dosage.
Then along comes a 2 1/2 hour piece of, call it counter-propaganda, a very small ripple in a very large and indifferent/hostile pond, and some people who stumble upon this film, all of a sudden, will take it upon themselves to turn into fact checkers and snort indignant platitudes about "propaganda crap" or "factual inaccuracy", dismiss the movie wholesale, then go back to spreading 'em wide open for their unquestioning daily dosage, courtesy of their good friends from GM, McDonald's, Halliburton or Chiquita Banana. "



You mean, the part where industrial society has allowed humans to live over twice our normal lifespans, sustain billions of people, and create economic subsistence in countries that were in hunger crisis just a decade earlier (aka: China)?


Are there major fundamental issues with greediness of certain tycoons? Hell yes...


But under a truly competitive global market, a lot of the negative issues of greed would be eliminated. It is due to the collusion of government and larger corporations that allows for inequalities to exist, since competitive markets mean more growth a less time for corruption.

Blaming competition is wrong. If we had a truly open society with no collusion and free markets, you would see poverty ended all over the world in just a decade.

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"Why do movies like this make you so pissed off?"
-Because they're chop-shop mash-up BS that takes clips and quips and tries to present something as factual when it's not.

"I mean, this only presents facts."
-You can say "I'm not evil". I can edit it to make you say "I'm evil". Does that make it a fact?

"obviously not ALL such documentaries have as much integrity"
-This isn't a documentary. It starts out with the intention of taking a side, not the intention of presenting a neutral POV.

"because it shakes up your perfect little idea of how life is."
-No one thinks its perfect. Most people are doing their part to eliminate ugliness.

"why would you want to think about the fact that they use sweatshops to make their clothes?"
-How else would these countries earn a dollar? It's not like anyone is forcing people to work there, it's the best money available.

"it allows you to still buy these products without feeling an ounce of guilt"
-I feel happy that we've found a way to send them money. I'd like to find a better way, but these countries are getting money because they want to work.

This movie is a piece of BS by people who don't know a damn thing about anything. Just like the protesters in the film who sat, listened, and learned that the CEO of Shell isn't Satan, and he's doing his part. All companies have philanthropic goals. Not just for tax breaks, but because everyone wants to help other people.

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"All companies have philanthropic goals. Not just for tax breaks, but because everyone wants to help other people."

And how would you know that? Made an in-depth research of all companies? Besides, I do not think that companies want anything. People behind companies might want things. And thinking that they all just want to help other people... Well, I would call it "blue eyes", so as not to call it BS. And exploiting one group of people in order to make as much money as possible and then giving part of the money made to other people (or even the very same exploited people) in order to make a good name for oneself isn't that wonderful either. Maybe it's not for tax breaks, but then in many cases it's probably more a marketing strategy than anything else. One could of course say it's better than nothing. Makes you feel good too, about how charitable you are...

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QUOTE:
" "obviously not ALL such documentaries have as much integrity"
-This isn't a documentary. It starts out with the intention of taking a side, not the intention of presenting a neutral POV. "

This is not the definition of a documentary.

QUOTE:
"All companies have philanthropic goals. Not just for tax breaks, but because everyone wants to help other people."

OK, there are several possibilities here. (1) your entire post is a massive joke. (2) You really are that naive. (3) You're scared of the truth, which possibly explains the hostility you feel towards this film. (4) You are the CEO of a company - I'm guessing it's something to do with processed cheese. (5) You're a masochist? Because in no way is your final statement even within throwing distance of the truth...

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All companies have philanthropic goals. Not just for tax breaks, but because everyone wants to help other people.


Can you back that statement up? Or are you just spewing unsubstantiated BS, just as you claim the movie does?


-How else would these countries earn a dollar? It's not like anyone is forcing people to work there, it's the best money available.


That is the worst argument ever, and people who use it are obviously morons. The fact that it is the best money available is pretty much the same as forcing people to work there. And it's BECAUSE of corporate sweatshops that 3 cents an hour is the best money available. They make it impossible for ethical companies to compete.

People like you always say, "Well, if they didn't work at sweatshops, they wouldn't have anywhere to work." The whole point is that there SHOULD be other places to work INSTEAD of sweatshops. And it's mainly big corporations that uphold the existence of sweatshops in the first place.

You'd obviously rather find weak justifications for the current crappy system than try to think about how it could be better.

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The fact that it is the best money available is pretty much the same as forcing people to work there

Go back in time to a period when there were no sweatshops in X. If the best money available would be a small sawmill, would the owner(s) of that sawmill be forcing people to work there?

How about a nation's system of education? If the government of a developing country increases the salaries to teachers, would they then be forcing people to enter that sector of the economy?

The whole point is that there SHOULD be other places to work INSTEAD of sweatshops

There are other places to work in. Sweatshops never would have gained a foothold if people would only have remained in their farms and lumber mills. It's because they were dissatisfied with wages that they changed jobs.


And it's mainly big corporations that uphold the existence of sweatshops in the first place.

By paying workers' wages. Noone forced those corporation to set up business there; had it not been for them, unemployment in these areas would be higher and the wages would be even lower (since more people are competing for less jobs).

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And what's neutral? I don't doubt that it's possible to make a propoganda film, but these days it seems like everyone is trying to get a fair shake on both sides on every issue, when the reality might have a left or right (or something else entirely) bias. The line where you say things are neutral is completely made up. Neutrality is bullsh!t. Facts are facts, opinions are opinions.


Also the "everyone wants to help other people" line is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

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Faulty as this and any other documentary can be, I too think that audacious material is always to be welcome. Thought-provoking things that make throw some new light but, most importantly, make you want to go and find out more rather than believing it 100% as if it were the Bible.

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People like you throw the word "fact" around without knowing what it means. A fact is akin to a piece of evidence and any piece of evidence doesn't exist in a vacuum, but within an interpretive framework. You cannot "describe" facts without having supposed certain things about the nature of reality. There are many "facts" in the documentary, but the merit of the documentary is how it interprets those facts and the general pattern that it extracts out of collected pieces of evidence.

"This movie is a piece of BS by people who don't know a damn thing about anything. Just like the protesters in the film who sat, listened, and learned that the CEO of Shell isn't Satan, and he's doing his part. All companies have philanthropic goals. Not just for tax breaks, but because everyone wants to help other people."

How idiotic! The film makes the argument that the philanthropic goals of corporations aren't driven by altruistic intent but the intent to humanize their image. In any case, their philanthropic initiatives are too modest and, proportionally to the harm, too negligible to be able to affect real change. What is needed, which the documentary plausibly demonstrates, is for legislation to impose severe constraints on corporations that would limit their ability to do harm. Giving legal sanction to corporations to exploit your own people is the sort of thing that is deplorable, but which politicians succumb to because of corporate lobbyists and sponsorship. While corporations may help increase the net gdp of a sovereign state and by consequence expand its economic and political power in the global arena, it is at the expense of the general populace and the populations of those developing countries that it even more severely exploits.

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[deleted]

"Why do movies like this make you so pissed off?"

Simply because it shows we all are part of the issue described in this documentary.

Because, it will soon come a time when we will have to decide whether we go on collaborating or starting fighting back.

Because, it reminds us how easy it is not to consider the impacts of our everydays decisions as consumers and citizens.

Because, it implies a dramatic paradigm change and we do not like changes, let alone paradigm ones...

Because, it's hard to face the truth.

Because, we are humans.

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To quote Peter Griffin...."You know what really grinds my gears? YOU America!"

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[deleted]

This is a solid film that offers many examples of how corporations don't work for the interests of people and humanity. Most of the information in the film about flagrant abuses of power are part of the public record -- even the at-first-glance-crazy-idea that a coup was being planned against Roosevelt in 1934.

But ultimately it doesn't matter. You can show pro-capitalists in-your-face, undeniable, on-public-record-facts, you can show them the most flagrant examples of gross exploitation and open theft, and they will still deny it. They're ALWAYS screaming about 'give us facts and solid proof,' but even if you seek the high seas, climb mountains and find irrefutable evidence, they're still not impressed and still in deep denial.

That's why all the screaming on IMDb boards between left and right is ultimely futile. Why do lefties even bother? You're not going to change minds that are permanently closed. Fuggeddaboutit.

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One thing that occurs to be about this thread is that people are way too enamored with facts. I don't think facts should be made-up, distorted, or ommitted, but even true facts don't inevitably lead to a single "true" conclusion.

For instance, it's a fact that the US does not have universal,public health care. It's also a fact that the US is the wealthiest country in the world by almost any measure. Nevertheless, the liberals will say that it's a travesty that a country that's as wealthy as the US doesn't provide healthcare to all it's citizens, while conservatives will claim that the US is so wealthy BECAUSE it doesn't engage in "socialist" practices like universal, public healthcare. Who's right? It's matter of opinion, but my point is those particular facts don't prove anything one way or another.

The thing I do have a problem with is the right/left paradigm we seem to have in the US these days. Facts are not everything, but they shouldn't be totally irrelevant. They become so, however, if people just ignore or "spin" any fact that contradicts the rigid views they already have. Does this documentary do that? Maybe. But even if it was totally objective it would still be accused of being "liberally biased" by the many, many people in this country who view from a rigid conservative point of view. This movie may indeed be guilty of over-simplyfying a complex issue, but it's still more thoughtful than anything I've ever seen on Fox News (for whatever that's worth).

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Basher in this or other threads about other brave films are the same people wich does not wanna give up liberalism and 'free' stuff (porn,guns,cars,prostitutes,greed,etc)... they pick some facts and diverge the conversation.... not a single debate about ideas, just picking up this and that.

The fundamental flaw is revealed.
Myths are in need, Straussian thinking..

Go watch 'Politics of fears' BBC, 2004.

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I think many of you people are confusing the difference between "fact" and value judgment. The movie makes value judgments based on the facts. It gives a normative perspective on the facts it presents. By contrast, the word "bias" refers to an inflexible opinion that prevents one from seeing the facts in a neutral way. There is a difference between the two. For example, my uncle is biased toward liberals, because no matter what the facts are, he still disagrees with them. That is bias. But there is a difference between "bias", an inflexible ideological slant in this case that prevents one from seeing the truth, and having the facts in front of you and interpreting them a certain way. The documentary has collected a number of facts that show the ill effects of corporations in society. It is thus taking a bunch of facts and deriving value judgments from them, that is, interpreting them to be good/bad.

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I'll tell ya why this movie pisses me off, it's just a meandering, stupid and useless exploitation film. You know what makes it hard to deal with gross atrocities? Stupid, non-concise arugements that are nothing more than shock value and present no real solutions. Sensationalism is sensationalism no matter who it comes from.

It's a hype machine that doesn't say anything. And it's sad to because there are so many things that could be explored and explained - like why it's bad to give corporations charity tax credits. Pick a subject, explore it thoroughly and present a solution with a call to action. Don't send people down a winding staircase of strings that have no connection to each other other than a tie to a legal construct with no intrinsic value.

Corporations are psychopaths? Really? What's even the point of that? You woulda been better of making a documentary about Ken Lay being a psychopath. Or showing that coporations are so detached because there are too many complexities.

Human interactions will one day all be brokered and quanitified? Is that a joke? That's like saying that legal prostitution in Nevada has forced all sex acts in that state to trigger an exchange of money. LOL All jokes about paying for dates aside it's important to realize that prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and is the most profound act of love there is and is given away for free everyday.

Hapless, blathering, self-important movie making that is clearly trying to capitalize on bleeding heart liberals who have no sense of how to depgrogram themselves with a hype-driven brain-washing is hypocritical. These people didn't give this movie away for free. Profit motive for the win.

What is the point? What are you trying to tell me? You sold me emotional vomit and I want my fraction of my monthly Netflix fee returned to me in addition to the opportunity cost of my time spent doing work for an evil corporation.

Oh no, corporations own the rain!! It's a joke. Bring me a movie that's more concise and actionable arguements and I'll listen cause I see promise in this movie.

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All jokes about paying for dates aside it's important to realize that prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and is the most profound act of love there is and is given away for free everyday.


Spoken like a true capitalist!

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Overall I am agree with what the OP have said. Those who hates this kind of documentaries are usually people who have been brain-washed by decades of pro-capitalist, pro-imperialist demagogy. They simply cannot accept the truth, that this world is doing worse than it was 50 or 100 years ago. When I say "this world" I am talking about the entire world and everything that lies on its surface, from natural resources, to the animal kingdom, to 80% of the world population who lives in 3rd world countries.
Brain-washed people in denial, what else are they if they cannot see how *beep* up is the world due to savage capitalism and its most notorious product: The corporations.

However I gotta say that this docu fails in one aspect: It denounces the "disease" (the corporations) but never what caused it in the first place (capitalist system), and doesn't makes any reference to an alternative cure (a different economical system). Perhaps the creators of "The Corporation" didn't want to mention that because they were afraid about this docu being labeled as "communist propaganda" by the brain-washed defenders of the system (no matter what it's gonna be labeled as such). Or perhaps they are simply clueless about the alternatives, though.

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So please enlighten us all by telling us by example how great communism or socialism are for the human race. Maybe you could give us all some examples of several communist countrys that beat what we have here in the USA.

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