at the end when tony, doc and wolfe were all shot, both doc and wolfe were killed, and tony lived I think it should have been reversed with tony dying and doc living. since doc was a decent guy, and tony was one of the team members who was down and verbally wanted to waste the whole village and was attempting to rape the village girl, and tony was the only rapist of the four who lived.
shareI though Tony and Doc lived? Wolfe’s definitely dead though
sharedoc - the medic, he survive. you see him waving to chris at end when he is being choppered out of warzone.
who is tony?
He’s the one who said “let’s do the whole fuckin village” after Barnes shoots the woman. He’s also the one who said “she’s a fucking dink” after Chris stopped the group from raping the little girl.
shareyes yes i remember this man now. another barnes ball washer! he probably should be KIA for karma sake.
at least junior and bunny got kill and francis survive. chock one up for the good guy hahaahh
FYI's i check and it say this man tony is play by ivan kane who is also in born on the fourth of july. if you watch this film, oliver stone reuse all the actors from platoon for small roles in born on the fourth of july, you can see them playing small parts through movie.
Yes a lot of the actors were reused for Born on the 4th of July and from what I understand Charlie Sheen was considered for the role that went to Tom Cruise. That was one of the most disturbing films I have ever seen, will never watch it again.
I always got the impression that Tony was just going with the crowd, he wasn't nearly as ruthless as Barnes or Bunny.
i think that just mean tony was a coward who did not have balls to be as bad as bunny. he never challenge them when they do bad thing. just as bad.
yes i watch born on the fourth of july recently. agree its great film but tough, really tough film to watch. but great war scenes.
i spot from platoon in born on the fourth of july:
crawford - plays orderly in veterans hotspital
Tex (angry man in platoon that doesn't want taylor watching his back on first ambush) - plays patient in veterans hospital who complain about giant rat
O'Neill - plays man at 1976 democrat convention at end
manny (soldier who they find tied up and murdered by charlies) - plays hospital orderly who talks to tom cruise a lot
captain harris - plays army officer being interview on tv news channel
doc (the medic) - plays man getting rode by black hooker in veteran hospital
wolfe - plays crappy doctor in veterans hospital
tony - plays man in wheelchair in mexico segment of film
barnes - marine recruiter who comes to school
elias - wheelchair veteran in mexico who fights with tom cruise in desert
may be more. I spot gardner from platoon was in JFK.
i think oliver stone must have good relationship with these actor to use them again. its seem he give opportunity to some of the lesser know actors from platoon. maybe trying to give them leg up?
Wow, that is really interesting, BO. I have only seen bits and pieces of Born on the Fourth of July. As you guys say it is an extremely difficult film to watch. I have struggled with it. But it does give a good look at what the wounded Vietnam vets faced. Locked away in slum-like VA hospitals with rats and horrible conditions. It was a national disgrace at how they were treated.
I am a big fan of The Big Valley tv show from the 1960s. Yeah, they would use the same actors over and over to the point of it being nuts. After about six different times of James Whitmore, Bruce Dern, or James Gregory in a guest role you're like okay can we just hire a different actor here. I guess if directors have a good working relationship with an actor then they are likely to turn to them.
yes BOTOJ was one of my fav film as teen, pitt. i worship all oliver stone movie during this time. my tastes is different now though hahah
and while BOTFOJ is brutal i still watch the war scene. this scene is perfects:
https://youtu.be/JoJBLOrJHEY?t=70
first, you have john williams music - the way it build to end from moment of first gun shot to cruise until final blow... amazing! then you have fantastic cinematographys - such vivid color - no washed out look to film. no cgi - real hueys and charlie. no shaky cams where i cant see what is happening.
finally, you have stone's great directing and editing style with several thing going on - helicopter above, man in helicopter who is spotter shouting at platoon to warn them of charlie in dunes, platoon Lt. in panic on radio communicating with chopper, then firefight with tom cruise shooting like john wayne.
it all builds up when first the Lt. gets hit in head. then huey goes down in flame... then boom! cruise finally go down ... and everything silent. perfection!
this scene says more to me about how frightening and confusing war is than most other film. but it is done in so much style!
yes i like when tv shows reuse same actor. it usually mean the crew have good relationship and that actor do good jobs. i like watching old american tv show from 70s to early 90s. they always reuse actor who come back and they are great. james whitmore i know this man haha! good actor.
I have seen that Nam scene from BOTFOJ before. I am surprised that they would take that many men straight at the little village (while making noise) before reconing it with a smaller force to see what was in there and to know if there were hostiles. I did not see the chopper get hit but the VC were shooting at it. I believe the US lost 50% of their helicopter that they sent to Vietnam. And 10% of the names on the Wall in DC are chopper pilots. That tells you quite a bit there.
I know Forrest Gump and Dead Presidents have nice Vietnam scenes in them even though they are not really about the war per se.
Bruce Dern always played a crazy nut and played one very well. You probably saw him as the blimp pilot in Black Sunday if you caught that one. He was outstanding in those nutcake roles.
yes good point pitt. they just walk right up on that ville. it look like perfect ambush spot!
i read this battle was based on real battle that happen, so much of what we see is true, but im sure oliver stone change some small things to look good on camera. for one thing that huey M60 door gunner would make easy works of those NVA machine gun nests!
yes the huey have no armor so it was easy to shoot down. so im not surprises to read of so many casualties. very say!
your statistic of heliopters lost in nam reminded me of this pitt. interesting story: https://aircrewremembered.com/grella-donald.html
yes i agree pitt forrest gump have great nam scene - i sometimes use to watch film up until end of nam scene and stop film hahah. jacobs ladder has good nam as well.
bruce dern great actor haha. great in silent running! i have not seen black sunday but will put on watchlist.
At least Tom Cruise's unit was spread out rather well when they approached the hamlet. But in fairness to them maybe they approached 100 of these types of things a day and usually nothing happens. Maybe they were the recon unit that was at the spear tip of a bigger force that was behind them. I have no idea on that. Maybe they had pressure on them to keep moving from some idiot officer well behind them.
Yeah, the door gunner could put some lead out but they had a most dangerous job themselves. I think the life expectancy of a door gunner in Vietnam was like seven seconds in combat. i don't think I would care for that job. The VC had some heavy machine guns and mortar support. They were a strong unit and in a good position. Too bad Tom's unit didn't let the chopper do a fly by before they got within range.
I caught a very good movie with Vietnam undertones this evening. The Killing Fields from 1984. I know this movie was a big deal when I was young but I don't recall ever seeing it. It was about what happened to Cambodia after the fall of Saigon/South Vietnam and the horrific Khmer Rouge takeover. I thought it was actually really G rated compared to what I thought it would be. But a very fine film. I can see why it was so heralded back in the day 40 years ago.
Your homework assignment, BO, is to watch the Vietnam scenes from the movie Dead Presidents. It doesn't sound like you have seen them. They are black guys in a US Marine Recon Unit. Great stuff. You should be able to find them on youtube.
you make good points about ambush, i think you are correct again! your knowledge of tactics is very interesting pitt.
some of those nva nests in the ville didn't have protections from above.... i can only assume the huey door gunner was major noob to miss them. you can see door gunner spraying and praying here: https://youtu.be/JoJBLOrJHEY?t=181.
door gunner noob should have knocked out these expose position easy but he just let them shoot up. i think even i could have taken them hahah: https://youtu.be/JoJBLOrJHEY?t=201
yes killing fields is great film. i watch this in school. it show the danger of communisms. haing s ngor get oscar for this film. he was in oliver stones heaven and earth. he die under mystery circumstances. very sad. great actor and film.
yes pitt i i will look for nam scenes in dead presidents as my homework assignment hahaahha.
BO---you should really be a professor of military history. You really know your stuff. The vast majority of Americans would be totally clueless against your knowledge.
I was actually looking for some of the Nam scenes from Dead Presidents last night on youtube and could not find any. Odd. They used to have them up. Maybe put this film on your watch list. It is certainly not entirely about Vietnam as it focuses more on when they get back and pull a heist. But they do have about 15 minutes or so of great scenes from when they were in a recon unit in Nam. I thought they were pretty real looking.
One crazy story on tactics---back in the mid-1980s my buddies and I rode dirt bikes (motor bikes) on the various trails around the countryside. Well, I guess we saw too many Nam movies and started setting booby traps for one another. Certainly nothing that would injure anyone. But we did have some good ones. The one guy lived with his head in the clouds and was always getting it really bad. LOL. Anyways, after about a month or so of this my father told me that we had better cool it because there were game wardens in the area investigating all the traps in the woods that we were making to get each other. It was nuts and crazy and really made you pay attention to your surroundings at all times. I have carried that through life with me. It's not a bad trait to have in this world of today.
haha professor! dont think so pitt but thank you for compliments.
Well, I guess we saw too many Nam movies and started setting booby traps for one another. Certainly nothing that would injure anyone. But we did have some good ones. The one guy lived with his head in the clouds and was always getting it really bad. LOL. Anyways, after about a month or so of this my father told me that we had better cool it because there were game wardens in the area investigating all the traps in the woods that we were making to get each other.
Yeah, nothing like playing war when you are young with your buddies. Just glad that we never did it for real. The traps were certainly never lethal or anything overly elaborate. They all relied on trip wires that your dirt bike front tire would touch off. Sometimes it might be a branch or smaller and bendable tree that would come swinging out after you. My one buddy had an engineer's mind and was the best at coming up with them. The one that we devised and got the clueless dude had a bunch of smaller sticks and debris from the woods (bark, dead leaves) raised up on some branches over the trail. We made it and called him up to come over to my place and ran back to the ambush trail. Ten minutes later he comes riding by and was just covered in a complete downpour of a bunch of junk. It was textbook.
I recall we started out using this white twine we found in my garage as trip wires but it stood out too much after everyone started looking for the wires. We switched to heavy test fishing line which was very hard to detect. After awhile you really started to pay attention to everything. They were everywhere. The only one I recall hitting was the clueless kid put these old rusted matrress springs on the one trail and covered them up good with leaves so you could not see them. My one buddy and I hit them and they were effective to stop us in our tracks and I got my one foot caught in one when I put it down to hold my stopped bike up. It was inventive of him. They were hidden well.
I never heard of anything about the investigation of the game wardens. LOL. But we certainly were not trapping animals. Just getting each other. I did hear the one old man in the area who liked to walk in the woods got hit with one and was pretty pizzed off about it. After awhile I think we all just rode on the roads with our bikes and if we had to walk through the woods we would walk off the trail system.
I know we had some other types as well. One where grape vines would drop down on you.
hahhahhaha amazing pitt!! outstandings. you must have creative mind. you sound like you made most out of your youth. at the time this is playing around but when you look back it is time of life. you must cherish this memorys it last forever.
i like the switching of the trip wire to one that can be less detected. hahah. perfect tactics to fool enemy! you must of been scourge of those woods haha! sound like the clueless kid got you good with those springs. a devious mind. was he nerd? you must always be on guard against these types. always one step ahead
in my town we have shit load of wild animal who roam streets and my neighbor build booby traps to get one critters that was terrorizing his cats hahahah. we could have used with you and your friends!
BO--yeah, the one guy was a bit of a nerd. But smart. He was the only one of us who would pore through military manuals. He probably knew more than you think but was kind of an odd guy. He took a beating. LOL.
I recall a few other traps now that I had more time to think back---one would be a horizontal stick on string or rope that would swing down onto the rider. Nothing heavy to hurt anyone. Probably the best one devised by the engineer guy was a teepee like frame of various long sticks over the trail and all of them would collapse on you at once. Some guy outside of our group who didn't know about what we were doing hit one of those. He thought we were all crazy when he heard what was going on.
I think some Nam movies like the Green Berets and Missing in Action and certainly Platoon (Sal Sandy) had booby traps in them. I doubt our traps could have worked on wily animals. We just used them on dumb '80s teenagers. LOL.
i can tell you pitt that i wish i was their with you! that sound like too much fun hahahaha. i think reading this i was their in spirits as this kind of thing is right in my alley. the teepee? hahhaah.
i can imagine people you know who think you nuts. you turned local woods into the iron triangle 1966 hahahahha
that was good you show nerd who's boss pitt. he took a beating but he took it and got you back. this is good. it show you are warriors on even ground. not targeting easy pray. this nerd came back with own booby traps. he was force to be reckoned with and had enviable military capabilitys.
casualties of war have some booby traps to.
Yeah, it was a good time. That was all in 1986. I guess 20 years too late for the iron triangle and wrong part of the globe. We did a lot of military/war themed stuff. It was odd how none of us served in the military. I guess we got all of that out of our systems early on. Crazy thing is that I have not seen any of those guys in many, many years. Well over 25 years easy.
Yeah, that one kid took a royal beating but he always came back for more. Especially all the sports we played. I still recall the wrestling match between him and the engineer guy when the nerd got body slammed and was actually knocked out cold for a short time. LOL. I never lost a match but only because I never took on the one guy who played tackle who lived down the road. He would have killed me I'm sure. I used good selective strategy there.
Okay, I'll have to rewatch COW. I cant' recall that off hand at the moment.
the 80s seemed like great time pitt. i did not live through this time but it seem to be climax to all the interesting thing that started in 60s and built up from 70s to this time. it was same with tv, film and life in generals. it was great time for culture. this is just what i observe.
if you try to build traps in local woods today then some woketard who stumble on trap will take footage of it on phone and post it on social medias with title "terrorist in woods" and swats teams get called in after online outrage of terrorists loose in the woods. in 80s no one care hahaha
that nerdlinger sound determined if he wrestle and fight as well as do booby traps. he definitely does not take shits. good for nerd. good to stand up for self. i do not think it is odd that you go into military stuff despite not serving as it is obvious in your blood from your father. but yes old friend will always slip away that is life
first time i see this scene in casualties of war i think it is booby trap but it is just michael j fox falling into vc tunnell: https://youtu.be/-kd60hlsP0o?t=212
yeah, the 1970s and 1980s were cool times. But I guess any time can be if you have things going good for you. I think you nailed it about the music, televsion and movies of that time period. Great stuff. Certainly the 1960s too as you say. It's about all that I watch and listen to these days. Do you listen to American music, BO?
I never saw that scene in COW. Was that a deleted scene? It was good and Sean Penn's character was a decent man and good soldier early on in the movie. I think he snapped when Brownie got killed. Everyone would have a breaking point with things.
There is that one scene when the cherry FNG is badgering Fox and another soldier and then steps on a mine or booby trap. I just remembered that one. I think this film carries well into the years. Fox was a great actor. I recall in the summer of 1985 when I was at an amusement park and my one buddy (engineer guy) where walking across a foot bridge and I saw this one guy passing by us with a girl. I did a double take and looked at him. He looked back at me as if he recognized that I recognized him. The guy was either Fox or his doppleganger. I always wonder if that could have been him. LOL.
My friends and I likely would be shot by the police today for our silly traps or we would be outcasts from society as big brother is watching and we were not politically correct and in step with things. Go figure. We were just kids having fun.
yeah pitt love 60-80s american musics and musics from this time in general like zeppelin, doors, hendrix, eagles, gnr, zz top. i like film soundtrack too. i dont like all that fag metal or dance pop from 90s to present. do you like musics from this 60s to 80s as well pitt?
nah that scene in casualties of war is opening scene of film, not deleted scene. great scene. it was cool becuase it was first time i see vc tunnel in that detail. great film. i think opening scene of universal soldier copy parts of casualties of war, scene with dolph lundgren killing nam girl similar:
i always find this scene in unisol: https://youtu.be/hP-PSfxxehc?t=90
is similar with this scene in CoW: https://youtu.be/34yuEpq0pcc?t=416
^^ you see both soldier lying wounded on ground and screaming as girl killed, screaming girl, and dinky dau gi killing village peoples
yes you remember well. FNG steps on booby trap in CoW. as does character during end battle of hamburger hill.
i think man you see is fox if he give you look of man that recognize that you recognized him. there is possible that he was just man who look like fox and he get stared at lot but i think it was really fox haha.
yes you would be in serious shits if you turn local woods into ambush zone. peoples more afraid of things today. absolute pussys.
okay I have never seen Universal Soldier nor I guess the intro to COW. That is odd. Thanks for including those.
Yeah, I have thought a lot about that over the years if that really was Fox. But that was the summer of 1985 and he was a huge deal back then with Family Ties and Back to the Future. It would be hard to believe he could fly under the radar like that. It wasn't a real big amusement park in the city or anyting. Who knows, I guess it could have been him. He gave me a different look when I looked back at him. Crazy!
I love that music of the 60s and 70s. Some 80s too. Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, Doors, Bay City Rollers, Air Supply, Rolling Stones, Eagles, Guns N Roses, I guess too many to even name to be honest. A lot of great stuff.
Man, you sound more American than just about all Americans that i talk to. You are really up on all of this stuff. You must be smart as heck. Too many Americans are dumb as crap. they use their freedom to do absolutely nothing and learn nothing. What a joke too many of them are. Sad. Do most folks from Egypt have your type of knowledge? I must say I am shocked to say the least.
wow pitt you have not seen universal soldier!? that is great film for military enthusiast. i see this film from young age and it is must for army fans imo. although it basically 80s action movie, not really war movie.
notice how brutal these film are from this time? they are brutal to the bone, but the quality of film is so good. the cinematography and music and actor. no cgi, shot on film and not digital, so it looks great.
was this man you see really small? i hear fox was really small when you see him in person. so if this man really small then he might fox. he might have been filming movie in pennsylvania at this time.
yes i like beach boys too and rolling stones and also kinks, beatles, creedence clearwater and metallica (before bob rock kill them). i do not know much about air supply and jan and dean. thanks to youtube there are so many new band i can discover from this time.
hahahahah thank you for saying i sound more american than people you know. no pitt! i am not like most peoples where i come from! this place is different compare to america. i always wanted to be in america and felt if i could not live there in person then i live there in spirit. so i have lot of apprecation for this place. but not many think like me so i am much different.
yes i do not undertand why so many of your american peoples complain about america. they live in greatest place this earth has ever seen and all they do in complain hahahah. i want these people to go live in country i flee from and see if they still want to bash this place hahahahahhhha
Yeah, good point about how much there is to appreciate here. But i just hope I don't get caught up in a mass shooting. Stupid GOP doesnt' even have brains enough to curb who can buy an assault rifle. Have you ever thought about immigrating? I don't know how hard that would be. Where in the US would you like to live?
Crazy story today at the grocery store. Guy in front of me looked so familar that I knew I knew him. Then after hearing him speak to the cashier and looking at him again----man he sure looked and sounded like Kevin Bacon. I asked the lady if that was him. She laughed and said no. But man, a good likeness to him as the older Bacon. Odd. LOL.
I was about 5-10 in 1985 before growing to just over six foot later on. Yeah, the guy was shorter than me. Fox was listed at 5-4 not sure if the guy was that short. But hard to tell just passing by someone for a few seconds. If it was not Fox it was one heck of a likeness to him. I see that he did film movie in Cleveland for an early 1987 release. That is not too far away per se.
I caught a decent war movie The Kill Team in part this morning. Bad Amer. soldiers in Afghan. who killed civillians. Hard to see that. I would like to see the rest of it. One soldier was good like Fox in COW. I know we had quite a few of returning vets kill themselves upon return from wars in Iraq and Afghan. Two of them were my former students. Wonder what really happened over there in those wars. Oddly I also had a student named Michael J Fox. He is dead now too.
speaking of nam booby traps, have you heard of simple history on youtube pitt? they do brief history of war and such. here is video on vc traps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg9GZPRjL4o
hahah that is funny you think you see kevin bacon. i guess it will remain mystery if that is really fox you see. you said fox was with girl at time. i think he is dating woman in 85 call nancy mckeon, she short with dark hair. does that match description?
nah pitt i believe america is best country for european immigrant. i do not mean if i go there then i feel unwelcome because i am not european. it just seem to me that non-european american peoples are always angry when i go on social media or see news report. they are angry about past, angry about race, angry about police, angry about life.
i recognize these attitude as i have same attitude when my family seek refuge in new country and i not fit in. this is what you do when you feel like you do not belong. when you feel inferior. if they are unhappy and full of hate then i might be too. i do not like this kind of atmospheres. i prefer to stay with people same as me as i do not want my existance to be define by race as so many do in america.
kill team sound like another de palma film call redacted. thank you for recommencing this film i will place on my watchlist on imdb.
Wow, great video on the VC traps! Nasty as heck. With all of the other stuff you would be looking out for on jungle patrol it would be tough to see all of that. If booby traps are properly disguised they are nearly imposible to see. I know that first hand. LOL.
No, I don't think the girl was Nancy McKeon or not that I can recall. I would estimate the guy who looked like Fox to be around maybe 17 or 18 maybe but Fox looked that age and played teenagers on screen with Alex Keaton, Marty McFly and Teen Wolf. He would pass as that age easy.
Understand your thoughts on things. You state them well. I was considering a move to Hawaii a few years back but decided against it as it is so expensive to live there. Being a white dude I would also likely be a minority with all the Asians and Polynesians. Not that I would much care but it would likely be culture shock as i am used to people who look like me. Odd to think about. I have nothing against anyone in matters of race. But I know what you are saying.
here's a new video on vc tunnels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uZZ9Nru9C4
if you were around in 60s pitt then i think army could use with you and your traps expertise hahahah.
you know that phrase "i would not wish that on worst enemy". well that is what i feel when i see those traps. falling in pit of spike dipped in vc shit? i guess that is maybe prefer to being deep fried by napalm strike!
i guess it is a mystery pitt. we may never know who this man is! you shouldve gone up and ask him if he was teen wolf. then we would know for sure. now it remain unsolved forever!
you are correct to say you prefer youre own kind. there is nothing wrong with this. i also read that natives in hawaii do not like white peoples so you are correct to avoid this places.
my cousin is migrant in sweden and i visit him last summer. this place is like paradise - clean, not overcrowds, prosper. and there are many migrants there who copy what minoritys in america do like be angry about everything. why? this is also why i will not move to west - i do not want to be associate with peoples who whine like this. because then everyone think you are same as them hahahh