MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > Grumpiness about The Oscars in Psycho-ti...

Grumpiness about The Oscars in Psycho-tic perspective

posted 7 years ago by swanstep (2616)
5 replies | jump to latest

Famously, Psycho (1960) got a director nom. for Hitchcock, a supporting actress nom. for Leigh, a b/w cinematography nom. for John Russell, and a b/w art direction nom. for a bunch of Hitch's TV guys. And none of them won.

So, no Best Picture nom., no nom. for Perkins essaying one of the 4 or 5 most memorable characters in all of movies, no nom for Stefano's great adaptation (with Hitch and Alma's help) of Bloch's novella, and no noms for landmark scoring by Herrmann and landmark editing by Tomasini. In sum, to be a Psycho fan is to be *very* aware that The Oscars, if regarded as a first draft of film history, of what will be remembered and valued by posterity, is often comically misguided. Or, put the other way around, The Oscars really should be taken very lightly precisely because they're not at all a guide to posterity.

My favorite film of 2016 was The Lobster (nom'd for Best Orig S/play) followed (roughly in order) by The Handmaiden, Fire at Sea (nom'd for Best Doc.), Julieta, The Witch, Love and Friendship, Toni Erdmann (nom'd for Best Foreign Film), and Zootopia (nom'd for Best Animation). All of the current Oscar front-runners are behind those for me with LLL > Moonlight > Hell or High Water > Hidden Figures > Lion > Manchester By The Sea > Arrival. (There are still quite a few I haven't seen that look promising, e.g.. The Wailing, The Salesman, Paterson, Twentieth Century Women).

I expect to be fairly grumpy no matter what happens tomorrow night: all the best pic. leaders are seriously flawed in my view; The Lobster really should win for Original S/play but LLL will probably ruin that; Fire at Sea is probably going to lose Best Doc to ESPN's OJ doc, which was great, but is a TV mini-series not a film in my view (but what will posterity care about?); two performance that jumped out for me this year were Nicole Kidman in Lion and Naomi Harris in Moonlight but both seem likely to be gazumped by a category-fraudulent Viola Davis (she's evidently a lead) in Fences; and Toni Erdmann seems likely to be pipped at the last moment for Foreign Lang. Oscar by The Salesman (which no one thinks is Farhadi's best film) for political/anti-Trump reasons. Oscars, you are the bitter gift that keeps on giving!

[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

"Due to circumstances beyond my control," I may not even be where I can watch the Oscars(which are now tonight, Sunday Feb 26.)

Of some irony, swanstep, you stand in for my near-total lack of having seen the 2016 nominees -- the awards will likely be voted upon by any number of Hollywood people who haven't even SEEN most of the films. In short, you are better equipped to vote for them than they are.

---

I would be hard-pressed to think of a historic film OTHER than Psycho which was so baldly shut out of even NOMINATIONS in categories in which it excelled not only for the year(1960), but for all time in movie history. Picture! Actor! SCORE! FILM EDITING!(The shower scene alone.) Original Screenplay(one of the few that many people can quote incessantly); And even Supporting Actor (Martin Balsam, who , while not on screen very long or emoting very much, brought a historic sense of Method to a Hitchcock and gave us a "death face" to haunt our nightmares.)

The Academy voters may not have known Psycho would live on in history in 1960, but they knew it was a blockbuster and they knew it broke a lot of rules and..(some reviews show), they knew that its cinematic prowess was massive.

I always like to say that a Motion Picture Academy of Arts and Sciences that never voted Hitchcock a competitive Oscar, or that never nominated most of the above awards for Psycho...is not a Motion Picture Academy of Arts and Sciences at all. Its something else. Perhaps a Rotary Club with really rich members?

---

In certain ways, Psycho was unlucky , for Oscar reasons, to be released in 1960. As Oscar Presidents like Gregory Peck "cut out the deadwood" of older, non-working members, came the 70's, movies like The Exorcist, Jaws, and Carrie all got significant nominations(Picture for The Exorcist and Jaws) and Jaws won the Oscar that Psycho should have, for the same reasons(Score...without their scores, Psycho isn't Psycho and Jaws isn't Jaws.)

And in the 90's, shocker nirvana. Kathy Bates wins for her psycho, Annie Wilkes, in "Misery"(1990.) And Silence of the Lambs cleans up in 1991(Picture, Actor -- Psycho Hannibal the Cannibal; Actress, Director, Screenplay.) Not to mention: DeNiro cadges the Oscar nomination for psycho Sam Cady in the Cape Fear remake that Robert Mitchum never got for the 1962 original.

(MORE)

[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Meanwhile, back at the REAL 1960 Oscars for which Psycho was nominated:

Psycho actually did much better with nominations than the two great Hitchcock films which proceeded it. Vertigo and NXNW only got below-the-line technical nominations except that NXNW got a Best Original Screenplay nod, too(losing to...Pillow Talk. Sigh.)

But Psycho got two "Big Above-the-Line Ones" -- Director for Hitchcock and Supporting Actress for Janet Leigh.

Its two other nominations -- Art Direction and Cinematography -- were in the much less competitive "black and white" division; fewer b/w films were made in 1960 than color ones. Still, art direction and cinematography WERE important in Psycho -- that house alone(inside and out) should have won -- but again, how would Oscar know how historic that house would be.

My "Psycho Oscar wish list" would move Janet Leigh up from Best Supporting Actress to Best Actress. She's got more screen time than Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs, and she IS the star of the film for 47 intense minutes in which she is ALWAYS on screen and sometimes the ONLY person on screen(driving her car, counting out cash.) And after Marion's death -- as Leigh herself noted -- everybody's talking about Marion. She haunts the ENTIRE movie. And I would give Leigh the win over Liz Taylor in Butterfield 8. Let Liz have her Viriginia Woolf Oscar and give this one to Janet.

---

In some ways, Hitchcock's being nominated for Best Director for Psycho was likely meant by the Academy to cover all the bases. Thrillers weren't getting nominations for Best Picture in those days. So Hitchocck's nomination covered that, and probably the editing and score and acting as well(in the Academy's mind.) They deigned to NOTICE a Hitchcock movie by nominating Hitchcock.

Billy Wilder won Best Director, for the very good The Apartment, but surely Psycho was more of an achievement to view even in 1960 itself -- if you knew what to look for in "cinema." I don't think the Oscar voters did.

---

Meanwhile, back at the 2016 Oscar show(in 2017.) I see that articles are duly being written about "who will win and who should win," etc. People are paid to write such articles every year. But with each year, the articles are more and more about movies that don't much matter to people. Except perhaps, to the people who make them, which makes this a VERY important local Rotary Club event...

--
Any year in which I feel like "dissing" how the Oscars aren't about hits anymore(you know, like Ben Hur and West Side Story and The Sound of Music and The Godfather), I'm reminded sharply that "Oscar is denigrated mainly by those who will never win one." True enough. Oscar is still the gold standard of achievement within the industry for the people who are lucky enough to work there.

So I will always retain a certain respect for what the Oscars represent.

But there can be no doubt that the movie business as a BUSINESS has moved further and further away from what "an Oscar movie" is.

And this: isn't it funny that, while eventually the Academy DID recognize the Psycho kind of film -- The Exorcist, Jaws, Carrie, Silence of the Lambs -- Hollywood pretty much stopped making those kind of "A list, quality horror films." The horror genre's been given over to the indies, for better and for worse.

PS. I understand that some conservative radical has spread posters all over LA this week quoting from a Tarantino script("True Romance"): "Oscars go to unwatchable movies from unreadable books."

Well, QT said it.Not me.

[–] swanstep (2616) 7 years ago

My Instant Reactions to Oscar 2017 - Part 1

Starting with a Justin Timberlake number is fun I suppose but since the song's from a bad kids movie that nobody saw the whole things feels a bit un- or anti-movie.

Kimmel's monologue is OK - nothing especially memorable but none of the shocking misfires that many hosts have inflicted on themselves.

Alicia Vikander, who's now the color of an oompa-loompa, presents Best Supporting Actor.
Good Montage of past Supporting Actor winners. Great.
Mahershala Ali, as expected, wins. Stops to shake Jeff Bridges' hand on the way up. Nice.

Kimmel shagging around….

Kate Mackinnon and Jason Bateman present Makeup and Costume awards
Suicide Squad - a truly terrible film - wins Makeup. Really? Is this relatively recent award working out?
Fantastic Beast - a meh film by all accounts - wins Costume. I guess it did early 20C period, NYC which is rare for a modern blockbuster.

The Hidden Figures gals - who were all excellent in a good film - present Best Doc. But first they bring out the most important math woman they played, Katherine Bogle Johnson. Very Nice.
ESPN's OJ TV miniseries wins as expected… but it's still a category fraud in my view. Director of OJ doc. thanks the Acad for stretching the eligibility rules/perpetrating the category fraud for him.

Dwayne The Rock Johnson comes out to introduce the main, very Frozen-like song from Moana. The Hamilton dude comes out to a ridiculous Hamilton-like prologue to the song….dumb. The song itself, surprise surprise is a smash live. Gal from the movie sings it beautifully and it's the sort of belter of a show-tune that works brilliantly in a big hall. (Note to self: See Moana.)

Cheryl Bone Issacs - Pres. of the Acad comes out to…..salute her own somewhat controversial efforts to get the Academy to be younger and less white overall. Ends by taking about The Magic of the Movies (everyone at home take a drink).

Kimmel shagging around with parachuted-in candy

Captain America and hot chick out to present Sound awards.
Sound Editing (= sound creation/acquisition) goes to Arrival. Probably deserved.
Sound Mixing goes to Hacksaw Ridge (unseen by me - mixing usually does got to action/war movies which have 100s of tracks of sound that have to be juggled and balanced). Winner tells a fun anecdote about his Mother telling him when young to win an Oscar and then thank her in front the whole world. Nice.

Vince Vaughan looking dapper out to highlight the Lifetime Achievement awards that are no longer part of the main ceremony. GRRRRR.

Good Montage of past Supporting Actress winners. Great. These segments are the best innovation this year.
Mark Rylance out to present Best Supporting Actress.
Hyper-competitive award this year ruined by category fraud. Viola Davis who is properly a lead by all accounts wins. Naomie Harris, Nicole Kidman getting robbed here in my view. Michelle Williams big scene in Manchester is clipped and it still doesn't work for me! Viola Davis gives a bizarre speech.

Still... Fences winning here is a reminder that 2016 was a remarkable year for Black casts: Fences, Hidden Figures, Moonlight. I don't think there has ever been a year with 3 of the most awardable films have principally black casts.

Uh-oh. Kimmel is into full cringe territory previewing pranking tourists.

Actors being inspired by other actors segment with Charlize Theron. What? Charlize gets to hymn Shirley MacLaine in The Apartment. They come out and Shirley gets a standing O. Awww. Shirls makes a couple of good jokes. She's the best. Still.
They present Best Foreign Film.
The Salesman wins. Feels political (the director's impacted by Trump's Exec orders on immigration - Toni Erdmann wins without that is the consensus).

Lion's Dev Patel out to present Sting doing a song from a doc that few saw and that wasn't nom'd. Sting's a master musicians so it sounds pretty good.

Hailee Steinfeld and Gael Garcia Bernal out to present Best Animation awards:
Shorts (nobody sees these - maybe if films came with shorts the way they did up to 1970 or so there would be a case for shorts awards….).
Features: Zootopia wins. Great, ingenious film. I look forward to seeing some of the other nominees - Red Turtle and Kubo and the 2 Strings and Moana especially - high quality nominees. 3 Zootopia winners get played off early - animation's such a big part of the industry these days that this feels disrespectful.

The Shades of Gray leads (both looking terrible IMHO) are out to present Production Design. LLL wins. Probably deserved.

Oh God, here come the pranked tourists. Ryan Gosling hands over some of his goodie-bag to a tourist! OK, this is dragging on….it's a long evening people…. and we lost the Lifetime Achievement/Testimonial Awards for this?

'Movies Around The World' segment where foreigners say nice things about movies. More time-wasting really.

Rogue 1 stars out to present Special FX Award. Felicity Jones is very pretty.
Jungle Book wins. Need to see this.

[–] swanstep (2616) 7 years ago

My Instant Reactions to Oscar 2017 - Part 2

Seth Rogen salutes Back To The Future
Rogen and Michael J Fox get out of a DeLorean to a standing O.
The present the Editing Award.
Hacksaw Ridge wins. Possibly deserved. Editing in LLL, Moonlight, Manchester certainly didn't jump out. Winner gives all sorts of Aussie/Kiwi-accented shout-outs.

Kimmel with a kid from Lion in the audience. More parachutes. Dear God.

Selma Hajek and David Ayewolo out to present Documentary Shorts and Live Action Shorts.
As above, these Short Awards don't work. Possibly should be replaced with Best Student films awards or Best under-22 years old-directed awards, or some such thing.

Oh God, Kimmel tweets at Trump.

Sci-Tech awards spotlight.

Javier Bardem salutes Streep in Bridges of Madison County (really?). Standing O for Meryl. Meryl blathers about truth en route to presenting the Cinematography award.
LLL wins for its persistently out-of-focus, heavily-traded-off shots. Moonlight probably should have won that one out of the nominees.

Kimmel does Mean Tweets. Meh.

Gosling and Stone come out to present La La Lands two nom'd songs. They look great, and great together. If I were Gosling's wife I'd be nervous.

John Legend does some strange rearrangements of the songs. Some dancers on (invisible) wires are impressive.

Sam L. Jackson comes out to present Best Score. LLL wins as expected. This award maybe doesn't quite work these days. Hidden Figures and Moonlight both have amazing mixed soundtracks that combine score element, original songs, previous recordings of songs but there's no way to Award those sorts of achievements.

ScarJo (in an unflattering dress) out to present Best Song
LLL's 'City of Stars' wins. Fair enough I suppose. Winners are all hyper-speed Harvard motormouths.

Jennifer Aniston introduces the In Memoriam. Sara Bareilles(?) beautifully sings Joni Mitchell while the names flood in. End with Reynolds and Fisher.

Kimmel parodically salutes Damon in We Bought A Zoo. Best comedy bit of the night - a punchline that had been well set up. And then they overdo it with Kimmel playing the Orchestra over Damon.

Affleck and Damon present Original Script award:
Manchester By The Sea wins. Bad mistake. The year's best movie with the best script, The Lobster, loses. Posterity will not be kind.
Amy Adams presents Adapted Script:
Moonlight wins. Possibly deserved. Winners give cool composed speeches. These dudes rocked.

More freakin' parachutes.

Hallee Berry out to present Best Director. Berry kind of mangles Chazelle's name as winner (not a director? is Chazelle, the presumptive winner being snubbed a bit?). Probably deserved win on balance from the nominees. Chazelle now the youngest Best Director winner (somewhere Orson Welles rolls his eyes).

Best Actor past winners montage. Good stuff again.
Brie Larsson out to present Best Actor. (Memo to self: See Captain Fantastic - Viggo looks like he's channeling Klaus Kinski there… cool).
Casey Affleck wins and Denzel looks *pissed*. I haven't seen Fences but Casey Affleck didn't do much for me in Manchester so I'm prepared to believe that Denzel may be on to something. Casey A. looks a fright and sounds terrible to boot as he accepts. Whole Academy now has buyer's remorse!

Best Actress past winners montage. Some of the best missed in this case.
Leo out to present Best Actress.
Emma Stone wins for LLL. Probably deserved. Emma gives a bit of a lame-o speech but she got two nice tight close-ups from an angle that nobody else got. She wins.

Dunaway and Beatty out to present Best Picture. Yikes! Faye's had ker-razy amounts of various sorts of work done…

Of course, now, famously all hell breaks loose. What a screw-up!
---------------

I'm seeing the ceremony two days late, and I must say that I've been somewhat disconcerted by the smug tone of all the think-pieces asserting things since like 'For once the Academy made the obviously correct choice'. I rank LLL a little ahead of Moonlight (both are flawed films in my view). LLL as the front-runner took incoming-fire of various sorts for months much of it broadly but very shallowly political. Moonlight has never been subject to corresponding bitchy scrutiny… and that was probably the difference. Now 'the insufferable smugness and deludedness of Moonlight triumphalists' becomes part of the story of the season.

[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Some nifty observations in there, swanstep. I put I a coupla Oscar posts up top. Certainly the twist ending will live in history -- Everybody will remember Moonlight now, even as , yes, the producers were robbed of their big moment.

I found it utterly charming when Charlize Thereon watched (fakely) The Apartment clips. I read that this years producer wanted "more film clips" and I'm with him. The only way the 2016 crop of Oscar winners can really hope to matter is being placed within the context of time itself.

Note that Shirley MacLaine and Little Brother Warren Beatty were at the Same Oscars. Shirley said she tried to call Warren on his cell to commiserate about the mistake but he didn't pick up. So she called Annette Bening at home later.

I found it hilarious when Kimmel spoofed the Apartment/BTTF/Madison County clips with "I Bought a Zoo." I've been watching the Damon/Kimmel fake feud for quite some time, and it is hilarious(Damon taking the stage with the mere prop of chewing on an apple and quietly making fun of Kimmel's loss at the Emmies was the best bit ever.) The fiasco at the end cut off a planned final gag where Kimmel joked at Damon about losing the Oscar(for Manchester.) But I read the gag in the papers.