I personally feel anyone who goes jogging before sunrise - male or female - just isn't being smart. It has nothing to do with blaming the victim, yet that is what I'm reading in the news. It simply wasn't a good thing to do.
It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world and people could be safe at all times of the day, but unfortunately we don't and running around alone in the dark is just asking for trouble.
I agree. There will be a lot of people who will say it's victim blaming, but I will give this example: if you had a daughter who called you in the middle of the night and said they were going to take a shortcut home which required them to walk alone down a dark alley, would you say "yes"? Obviously she should be able to, but that's not the way the world is. It's a dark, dangerous place.
shareMY DAUGHTER WOULD COME HOME WITH BLOOD ON HER HANDS A STACK OF WALLETS...BUT I WOULD SAY "NO" IF ASKED OBVIOUSLY.
shareA few years back we had some women raped and killed in parks at night. At least one was cutting through a park at night. I am a big man and I wouldn't cut through a park at night!
The Police Commissioner tried to tell women to be more careful but of course he was howled down for "victim blaming".
I think there is a certain degree of common sense that needs to be employed in the world. No one deserves their house to be broken into and of course it shouldn't happen. But we still should lock our doors!
I am a big man and I wouldn't cut through a park at night!
I'll short cut through dark alleys and think nothing of it. I don't live my life in fear.
Yeah, it's more likely for a man to be attacked than a woman because her size and gender makes her more cautious. Men only get raped in prison. Women just don't have the same freedom of mobility as men. Sad but true.
But the overall odds of being jumped if I cut through an alley? That's rather low and I do it all the time.
Men only get raped in prison.
Women just don't have the same freedom of mobility as men.
Sad but true.
But the overall odds of being jumped if I cut through an alley? That's rather low and I do it all the time.
I've not only been shot, I've been mugged at gun point twice. One time me and my buddy fought the thieves and got our asses kicked but I managed to hold onto my wallet. Victory!
Sorry, I refuse to live in fear. I frequent urban areas and it goes with territory. But I won't cower at home. I do what I want to do.
Sure, if you look at murder stats only, about 11,000 men are murdered every year. The stats for women being raped is about 140,000. The streets are definitely less safe for women.
That's if you look at murder stats only, as you said. Why didn't you include the murder stats for women, for comparison? Why did you instead switch from murder statistics of men to rape statistics of women? What about robberies, assaults and batteries?
The truth is, men are statistically much more likely to be victims of every single type of violent crime on the streets, other than rape. And your 140,000 number in regard to rape includes date rape, intimate partner rape, and statutory rape, which constitute the vast majority of rape. How many women are actually raped in the streets by strangers every year? How does that number compare to the number of men who are robbed, jumped, beaten, assaulted and murdered in the streets by strangers every year?
The thing is, even in the lowest circles of society, among legitimate career criminals, murderers, etc, there is still a code of conduct, which includes protection of women and children. Just like the worst-of-the-worst prison population will rape, torture and eventually kill inmates who have been convicted of preying on or victimizing children, inmates who have victimized women are also looked down upon and targeted for violence. At the very least, they are classified as pussies for going after women instead of men.
Women are statistically much less likely to be targeted on the streets than men are. However, in the event that they are attacked on the streets, they are much less likely to be able to fight off their attackers than men are. It's a complicated thing. Women feel less safe on the streets at night, although they are much less likely to be targeted. Men feel more safe going where they want, even though they are much more likely to be targeted.
Because I couldn't find a breakdown of how and where the murders and rapes were committed. I'm not doing a college thesis here either.
But the difference of 14 to 1 in murders for men and rape for women makes my point. You're trying to claim the world is a safer place for women. Yeah, I guess I'd rather be raped than murdered. I'd still be alive and I'm a promiscuous bastard anyway. But women are easier targets so they must restrict their behavior more than men. This is fucking common sense. Every parent worries more about their daughter on the street than their son.
No, your premise is irrational, even misogynistic. A lone woman on the street at night is much more likely to be targeted than a man. We all know this. That's why fewer females walk alone at night than males.
But the difference of 14 to 1 in murders for men and rape for women makes my point. You're trying to claim the world is a safer place for women. Yeah, I guess I'd rather be raped than murdered. I'd still be alive and I'm a promiscuous bastard anyway.
But women are easier targets so they must restrict their behavior more than men.
Every parent worries more about their daughter on the street than their son.
No, your premise is irrational, even misogynistic.
30% of rapes* are by strangers. That still dwarfs the number of murders of men by strangers and people they know. 30% of 140,000 is 42,000 women compared to 11,000 murders of men anywhere. We also need to add in the number of women murdered on the street, like the jogger in the OP.
*https://www.ncjrs.gov/ovc_archives/ncvrw/2005/pg5o.html
Streets are statistically more dangerous for women. But really, that's obvious to everyone but you apparently.
You're making the claim that men are targets of crime more than women when the stats show otherwise. You say criminals are more respectful of women when the stats show otherwise. That's why I suggest there may be some misogyny here.
Given mostwomen are more concerned about being attacked than most men who probably fantasize about fighting off an attacker I actually believe this,
The male ego tells them to run towards danger after all
Males want to die horrible deaths, after all, so 4x more likely does not seem unlikely
But that is what I was saying. I wouldn't short cut through dark alley's! I do think something of it! I am aware there are people out there who want to do us harm!
In many cases there wouldn't be victim's to blame if they made choices that were just more aware and wiser.
Seriously though, if there's anyone in the alley, and there usually isn't, it's just some drunken bum who can barely walk anyway.
shareBut that's exactly what victim blaming is. You're blaming them for not exercising enough caution in a situation that should be relatively safe. If you're running around at 6am, then statistically you're in the least amount of danger, as this is apparently the safest time of day in relation to homicide. And last time I checked, homicides occur primarily in the home, so being outside at any time is safer than being inside.
Everyone should exert common sense in specific scenarios that pose dangers, like late night events that involve drinking or walking home from elementary school alone (if you're a kid). But just living your life isn't something you should have to do cautiously 24/7. The time people go jogging usually correlates directly with their work schedule - it's literally the only time they have the energy to exercise before work. They can't do it during or after work, especially if they're not financial enough to go to the gym. People are allowed to exercise outside without being called stupid for not worrying about being murdered.
Also, there's nothing you can do smartly against homicide. It's not really your job to make yourself less murder-able, it's the law's job to make sure you don't get murdered by punishing people before they reach a point where they think murder is permissible.
Why would anyone think it's relative safe to be outdoors, alone in the dark at 4:30 in the morning? To use another's example of locking doors - then why shouldn't I be able to keep my doors unlocked at all times and not be concerned about who might enter my house and for what purpose? Yeah, right.
Sorry, but people are responsible for evaluating situations and taking the appropriate actions to be safe and it's totally unrealistic to think we could ever live in a crime free society.
Why would anyone think it's relative safe to be outdoors, alone in the dark at 4:30 in the morning?I don't know about safe per se, but it is safer than being at home at 4:30 in the morning. That's just statistics. If you're a woman with a husband or a man with or without a partner, it's safer.
people are responsible for evaluating situations and taking the appropriate actions to be safebecause I already said so. However, it's unrealistic to expect people to approach the possibility of being murdered the way hypochondriacs approach illlness. Otherwise, don't drive a car, don't eat out, don't travel, don't go to work/school, don't date, don't get married, don't own anything. If you really want to avoid getting murdered, there are far likelier ways to die than running at 5.30am. share
If someone is walking about the streets at noon and gets shot by some idiot than that is not right to blame the person who got shot. They were going about their lives at a usual time of day. Same if they were jogging at 6 am or earlier along the street and something happened.
Cutting through parks and dark alleys though at odd times of the day? It's pushing your luck.
It's wrong to blame anyone for being shot just for leaving their house, no matter what the time is. Being shot isn't a crime, shooting someone is. No one is asking for it just by jogging around their neighbourhood at what should be a peaceful time.
Like I said, everyone should exert common sense in specific scenarios that pose dangers, but you still enter into situations where that's a possibility, you don't avoid them. You're not pushing your luck because someone else decides to murder you - that alleviates so much responsibility from the person actually responsible for harming you.
My way of thinking is if I am scared to walk, jog or whatever after dark in my own community, then I am living in the wrong place.
shareSeriously? I can't think of anyplace in Cincinnati where I would be comfortable doing that - and that includes the very best parts of town and the suburbs where my son lives. Believe that is true of just about all major cities and small towns.
shareI’m very serious. I don’t live in a city and I know all of my neighbors. I’ve honestly just never lived my life that way.
shareNot the way most people live.
shareNow that you mention it, I would love to see a poll on just this topic. The results would be interesting.
shareToo bad MovieChat has no poll feature. Please ask Jim.
shareI live in a major city and I feel safe walking in my neighbourhood in the dark. Sure, I try to be very aware of my surroundings, but I think I have a better chance getting hit by a car than attacked by a stranger.
shareI thought about this and all I can say is look at the Clutter family. They lived in the middle of nowhere, knew all of their neighbors and probably felt as safe as anyone, yet they were victims of a violent crime.
I think it's so unrealistic to assume any place is "safe."
When I lived in a university town, I often took long runs at night whenever I became bored and restless. It was peaceful and definitely therapeutic. I loved running under the stars! The only bad memory I have of that time is of an unknown motorist once, pausing to stare and glare at me while I shuffled back and forth through a sprinkler system in a public park to cool off because it was the middle of the summer. It was one of those, "What the fuck is that guy's problem?" moments.
shareI think that depends on where you live. I'm not even that far north, but when the sun doesn't rise until almost 9 am during parts of the year, and sets just after 4 pm, you had better be okay walking in the dark.
shareIf you are running with scissors and poke your eye out it isn't blaming the victim to point out the stupidity of what you did
Maybe if he world wasn't full ofpeople who coddle the "victims who made an obviously very stupid mistake
Darwin awards are great for these so called victims
Victim blaming is such a slippery slope. Where are the lines that separated what constitute as one and not? Is jogging at 4.30 a mistake but at 6 is not? What about jogging at 5? What about at 5.30?
I think if people are speaking publicly, like politicians or police officers, they should avoid to do victim blaming how miniscule it is. They shouldn't even blame a person poked in the eye when running with scissors.
But in closed conversations, like for parents or guardians I think it's fair game. Victim blaming, while obviously politically incorrect, is useful in making our loved ones safe and sound. It's a cautionary tale.
Teachers on the other hand, are in a difficult position.