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Are poor Americans really just incompetent idiots?


So here's why I ask: A friend of a friend moved to America from Serbia some 10 years ago. He barely knew the language at first and got a job as a truck driver. Now he has his own trucking company worth millions. And he said that you literally have to be an idiot not to succeed in America.

And his success story is not the only one I know. As a matter of fact, I don't know a single story of someone from here going to America and not succeeding, at least in relative terms. I know a guy who was literally mentally impaired, didn't even finish elementary school, moved to NY, worked there as a taxi driver, saved some money and came back as a rich man.

Then there are plenty of celebrity examples one of which is a famous artist in my country who's brother is friends with my dad. The guy illegally moved to America in the late 80s, worked first as a bouncer, then as a bodyguard only to later find himself in photography and sculpting, became a millionare, hung out with hollywood celebrities.

Tommy Wiseau, the director of The Room. Not really the sharpest tool in the shed, and yet he already got rich before making his movie and despite his movie being the worst thing ever, it payed off.

But the American perspective seems to be quite different. People having the privilege of being born in it constantly complain about the economic inequality and claim that it's impossible for them to succeed due to being born poor or even due to their skin color. So how can I from my perspective draw any other conclusion than that Americans, black or white, are simply spoiled, and when a hard working humble person from a country where life is truly hard comes there he does what it takes to succeed because he knows how much worse it can be.

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Most poor people that got rich in America have done illegal stuffs. Even taxi drivers. Some of the things they are doing aren't even illegal in their home countries, but are in the USA. For example working like 20 hours a day non-stop, which is probably the norm in China but is totally illegal in America.

I watched a documentary that shows immigrants from Korea work as taxi drivers having no house. So two people would drive 1 taxi. When one is driving, the other sleeps in the trunk. In. The. Trunk! Thus they take turns working 24-hours non-stop. Obviously illegal. Law abiding citizens simply couldn't compete with them.

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That's an interesting point that somewhat adds to the conversation, but I'm of the opinion that stupid laws exist to be broken and admire the taxi Koreans.

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Yeah you admire those Korean taxi drivers because you are not a law abiding taxi driver who were sacked because those illegal drivers dominate the earnings.

See, there are simply not enough place for both. If one thrives the other loses. If illegally driven taxi won, the legal ones suffer. Do you really want to see all the people breaking the law left and right, lawbreakers prevail and law abiding citizen become poorer and poorer? That is what you want?

The only way to be fair is to uphold all the laws. But we have too many laws it's impossible to sufficiently enforce.

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You're implying here all immigrants brake the law and every one of them succeeded only because of playing dirty, while the good little Americans are all law abiding and that's why they're poor? It sounds like that "they took our jebs!" joke.

That is what you want?

No, actually I don't have a reason to care about how the job market looks half way across the globe. Your politicizing of the subject and complaining about the unfairness only confirms my theory that Americans are spoiled. Somebody comes to your country with nothing, makes something of himself and all you can say about it is he cheated.

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That's exactly what my original post is all about. It's even the first sentence. I'm assuming most poor immigrants made fortune in the USA by doing illegal stuffs. Just like you're assuming all poor people are incompetent idiots. If you can assume things why can't I? Double standard much?

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This reply is literally "you've made a stupid generalization so why can't I?".
Except I didn't even make one, a friend of a friend did, my post was meant to provoke counter arguments and I got some good ones and some terrible ones like yours.

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What a pussy. Hiding behind a friend of a friend.

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I highly doubt these people are doing it all on their own.

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KD, do you think it's a stupid law to prevent people working 20 hours straight, week after week, and inevitably have an accident that kills other people?

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In this example, they worked 12 hours each and there was no mention of an accident. If they can pull it off, props to them.

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Yes, I misread. "they take turns working 24-hours."

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Yeah. But they sleep in the trunk of the moving taxi. Without seatbelt. So at least they endanger themselves, which is still totally illegal.

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Well, by doing that they have tacitly declared that they have accepted the possibility of those consequences. At least, they should.

One hopes they also accept full responsibility for their medical treatment when that happens.

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Do they have a choice? It's not like there's a social health care system in the US.

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I'll have to take your word on that, KD, being a foreigner as I am.

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Yeah, right. They got into an accident, the hospital bill them $10,000. Things go viral on the Internet. Riot ensues.

Nobody wants that. When those people got into an accident they don't call an ambulance. They don't go into hospital. They go to traditional Chinese medicine practitioner in the Chinatown and the local yakuza would gladfully take care of ensuring their debts. It's really ugly down there.

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Colourful country, America. So many different, (and apparently conflicting), ways of doing things.

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It is annoying when I've got a lot of luggage that won't all fit in the cab, and I've got to move Mr. Sleepy over to be able fit it in the trunk.

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He will then sit beside you on the passenger seat. In pajamas and everything.

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Mr Sleepy😆
My thoughts exactly...
What do you do with your bags?!?

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I insist the bags go in the trunk. I don't want them to get dirty, so I have the cabbie strap his slumbering partner to the roof until I get to my destination.

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A perfectly reasonable solution

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Most Americans are very hard working people.

But it is safe to say that most also don't have a entrepreneurial spirit.

People from other countries seem to have this in spades.

But the countries that they come from are often so corrupt and they have to bribe everyone and jump through so many hoops that they can't ever make money.

So it comes as a surprise to them when they get into a relatively clean country with a solid rule of law and nobody to bribe. They often bring that entrepreneurial spirit and become successful.

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Good point. I'd also add the infamous problem of bureaucracy to that.

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i havent read this post as im in a sick neckache
But sometimes people maybe they cant stand for more than 3 minites coz of thei neck or whatever.
But judge poor people ok

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Sorry about your neck. My post was meant to be provocative Americans, I don't judge all poor people. I'm poor myself after all.

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Oh ok sorry

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I don't think it is just the poor in America who are incompetent. The middle and upper classes tend to not be that much more intelligent/capable although they at least have the wealth to support them.

From my experience with Americans they generally tend to be very insular in terms of their knowledge of the world and also struggle with thinking "out of the box" you really have to spell things out to them most of the time.

That probably contributes to their lack of success in some respect. I also think the political system likes to keep some of them poor and I guess if you grow up in that culture you learn to accept your station in life perhaps, whereas a newcomer has taken the huge leap of leaving their homeland and will give it all it takes to succeed as well as having the advantage of not being raised in said culture.

The American education system is also expensive and not very good so it makes sense that someone from a country where education is cheaper/free could move to the USA and even if they had to start with a dead end job would be able to build on it better than an American born person.

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When I first started thinking about what would be some good counter-points to my OP, the problem with education and the stigmatizing culture were my first thoughts.
I never really bought that Americans are that stupid compared to the rest of the world. Maybe they are compared to Scandinavian countries or Japan for example. But your point about them not thinking outside the box and as one other user mentioned lacking entrepreneurial spirit shares some light on the matter.

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Based on my experiences with Americans only and obviously I have not met or spoken to all Americans. I had an American girlfriend who was very easily offended and was offended often especially by my direct Australian manner and humour. She admitted American's were rather insular and know little of the outside world.

From what I have seen American's have a rather grueling work life compared to many first world countries and even some developing ones. They do work hard but yeah that not thinking outside the box thing is a problem for a lot of people, the idea that you just keep doing things the same way then wondering why they fail or don't work so well.

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I think some people just like to enjoy life rather than worry about how smart they come off to people.

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I don't think the average College/University educated person is all that intelligent anyway. Look at the BLM riots, mostly white "college educated" people trying to use black lives as an excuse to be feral.

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Things aren't that simple, what about depression, social anxiety and other disorders.

And it might be difficult to understand for someone like you but a lot of people don't care that much about getting rich.

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The streets over here are paved with gold.

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My Town hasn't polished our gold streets in 2 years!!

#firstworldproblems

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of course that's not true.

there are lots and lots of reasons for why a person's life goes the way it does, and a lot of them are things they have no control over. you don't control your parents and the school you were sent to and the people you grew up with and whether you grew up in a poor or rich neighborhood.

and you don't control your iq, your personality, whether you're meek or outgoing, calm or impulsive, all kinds of things. you can try to change and improve, but the reality is that the person you are is mostly the person you're going to be, and it's not a given that you can change any of those things.

it's definitely the case that immigrants often do much better than native born populations very quickly. when you compare immigrants from nigerian and the west indies to native born black populations, you'll see that they do better over generations, for example. that's not a completely fair comparison, of course, because immigrants by their very nature are often some of the most ambitious, driven people - it's not a small thing to upend your life and move to a completely different part of the world, and that is reflected in their outcomes.

none of which is to say that people should be fatalistic and give up and accept their life and not try at anything. simply that you have to understand that everyone has a different story and reason for the person they are.

i definitely have my opinions on what we ought to be doing to improve the lives of poor people. personally, i think most of the anger we've seen in the last few months is grievously misdirected at the police. i think the areas to place your rage are the public schools that are so rigid and have given poor people an absolutely atrocious education and the labour rules and other regulations that work to keep so many disadvantaged people out of the work force in their youth.

i still think the us and other developed nations are the greatest places ever to exist. if you were to choose the best place for any individual to live in history, it would surely be right here right now.

but i am worried about the possible directions we could take in the next few years that could really reverse the incredible economic gains that have been made in the last 30-40 years, for the us and the world.

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This right here.

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I'm a poor american idiot. I have never figured out the knack for how to get ahead in life. I don't have a hustling mindset, i've never grasped how to flip things for profits, move ahead in life and climb that ladder. I have no social skills, don't create connections with people, and never have the resources to seize opportunity even when it presents itself. I never figured out how to trade favors for favors and keep the turtle shell moving. I suck at life. I have a buddy who got out of jail with nothing and within three years he was running his own company. Cause the dude is charismatic as hell and people just liked dealing with him. Good smile and a good story will take you anywhere in life. Look at that Mr. Pillow asshole.

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You sound depressed Amigo
Depression is NO joke

I say this with kindness and no stupid internet sarcasm, perhaps you could consider discussing these issues with a health care professional
Lots of people need a therapist to talk to once or twice a week to work through things, I know several people who have been helped this way

They are better off for it
Just my 2 cents, best wishes

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Look at it from the bright side. Are you hungry? Have a roof over your head? If you have that, you're ahead of many and free to pursue your happiness in other way but financial gain.

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Very true. Some people are naturally charismatic.

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