Jim Jones - General Discussion Discussion

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Jim shot himself, he didn't drink the Flavor Aid. Strangely enough.

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[–] slimone (7996) 5 years ago

I know.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

the recording of the suicide gives me the chills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMrFCwYAZxE&bpctr=1563491869

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Ugh, I started listening and then decided forget it. A lot of those people didn't commit suicide, Jones and some of his higher ups forced them so it was murder.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

I remember this case well...a good reminder to always call 'bullshit' on so-called leaders

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

👍

Those poor people. I saw an interview with one of the survivors of Jonestown. I don't know how someone processes and recovers from an experience like that.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

I mean this honestly and respectfully but how does one even find themselves having such an experience...hundreds of grown people poisoned their own children and themselves because some dirtball said to?

Jesus! I can barely behave at work and they pay me reasonably well...any sign of kool-aid and It's jumping off!

It's really hard to believe so many people just bought into that creepy nonsense

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

I don't know. I suspect they're people who are lost in some way, searching for something, and so they're vulnerable to this kind of thing. Same with that Heaven's Gate thing, and Scientology. That's what I've gathered from watching interviews of ex-Scientologists.

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[–] slimone (7996) 5 years ago

Tom Cruise is a Scientologist.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Yes, one of the most famous Scientologists, in addition to John Travolta.

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[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Elizabeth Moss too. I think that ended up disappointing a lot of people who wanted to idealize her as a feminist icon. Until they learned she's a scientologist.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

She was disappointing to me because I thought she was superb in Mad Men.

Tom Cruise, no loss; I never was much of a fan. John Travola, something of a loss. He was good in a number of things. Elizabeth Moss, a loss because I thought she was so promising in Mad Men.

Which isn't to say I can't appreciate the acting of someone aside from their affiliations and/or beliefs. But Scientology, 😳

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[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I thought Moss was great in Mad Men too. I also enjoyed her turn in Handmaid's Tale.

I always suspected it was more than just coincidence the sustained longevity of scientology's two biggest stars just happened to be Hollywood's two biggest closet cases. Like they fear the release of compromising material surreptitiously collected on them by the church, or revealed by them to their "auditers" in recorded sessions known to be a big part of their practice, to ever risk leaving. I figure scientology's anti-gay orthodoxy also provides a convenient cover to maintain their denial, and might have even been a feature that attracted them to the church in the first place. Sort of like the appeal of the Catholic priesthood, which Cruise by the way originally aspired to join.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

I haven't seen The Handmaid's Tale. First because it came out on Hulu, which I don't like, and then ... oh maybe it was because I'd just heard she's a Scientologist! Not a good reason.

I've heard rumours that Travolta is bi. Is he gay? I had heard rumours that Cruise is gay. We do know Scientology gets dirt on people and uses it against them, so you may be right.

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[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Without question both are. Travolta has been more careless with his trail of male sexual battery litigants he's let hit the press before settling out of court. Cruise has been more careful in quashing any hearsay that might go to print by threatening litigation. It's obvious because he goes so overboard to appear heterosexual it's just awkward. The Oprah couch jumping incident? C'mon. Oprah caught him offguard with a question he couldn't admit was arranged when she asked how he met Katie, so he responded with a distraction by bouncing off the couch over his professed love for her. He gets away with such strange behavior because he's a scientologist, so everyone just writes him off as some weird alien. But if he didn't have the cover of an alien cult, I don't think his behavior would stand up to far closer scrutiny.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Sexual battery litigants? 😳 All this time I thought Travolta was a kind of weird but basically ok guy.

I remember the bizarre couch-jumping incident, but not what set it off. Now that makes more sense.

I do think Cruise gets a pass because he's a Scientologist/Xenu believer, and because he'd had several big hits before people knew about it. A lot of people shrug it off or look the other way.

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[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

Yeah I recall when he served divorce papers to Nicole months before their 10 year anniversary. In the state of California that would have legally entitled her to half his wealth. It was obvious to me at least that's the reason why he served her when his fortune eclipses hers many times over from being the biggest earner in the business. But as soon as the gay rumors started swirling of theirs having been an arranged marriage Nicole conveniently goes on the talk show circuit putting on a show of how distraught she was while also dissing him by proclaiming how she's relieved she no longer has to worry about wearing her flats around him in public. 😂 At 5'11" she must have towered over him. The timing of her public tour to quash the rumors just as they were escalating in the tabloids was uncanny, but effective in its distraction.

Then the very next movie he does is Vanilla Sky with Penelope Cruz, another arranged affair from which he then goes on the public talk show circuit professing his love for her. It's like he was so image conscious about appear hetero and sensitive to gay rumors that he was afraid of appearing for any amount of time not in a committed relationship with a woman. But I do get it in the sense that he wouldn't get the roles he does if he ever came out. We're perhaps approaching the day when that might not be the case, but we're not there yet. But far less so 15 years ago when he was putting on these public charades. He seems more relaxed now about appearing single after his last divorce in 2012, times have changed. Plus those arranged relationships must have cost him a boatload to maintain.

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[–] sslssg (27695) 5 years ago

I think that throughout history people have done some pretty horrific things for religions. And that's what this was. A religion. Jim Jones studied religions and took what he wanted from them so that he would be able to have as many followers as he could.

Ignoring the major religions (which I just think are more acceptable cults), Aum Shinrikyo is a crazy one. It started off as yoga and meditation and then morphed into civilian attacks on subways. How does that happen?

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Jones was more of a communist than anything else. Religion was a way to gain power and money.

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[–] sslssg (27695) 5 years ago

He preached socialism as a way to control people. I don't think that he really was a communist. I think he was more of a dictator personality than actually having a political right or left ideology.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

I agree, a dictator narcissist personality.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

He was trying to get to the Soviet Union in the last days but I don't think he understood what that meant. He was paranoid about the US government surveilling him. The Soviets would have been a 1000 times worse.

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[–] GlenEllyn (21085) 5 years ago

I will never understand how people can fall for this kind of thing. And yet, they do. Lots of them.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

Charles Manson, a wee man you could bust over your knee is another good example of an obvious shitheel that somehow managed to attract a following of devoted loons

It is all pretty odd!

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Even what's his name, that Beach Boy, and Terry Melcher fell for him.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

Brian Wilson I think...Manson was oddly enough a failed and frustrated musician...If I remember correctly Wilson re-recorded one of Manson's tracks...it was not a huge teeny-bopper hit LOL!
I youtubed it once and it was pretty lousy!

Things got so tense in LA during the slayings that Steve McQueen was pulled over with a loaded pistol under the car seat...He was really afraid of the Manson family and the cop just let him go!
True story, read Bugliosi's book!

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Dennis Wilson

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

Oops!
I think you are right lol...I've never been very good at sorting out the Wilson's😎

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

the dead one

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

Right... the one with the drug problems:(

Bad news all of that!

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Dennis was drunk and decided to go swimming in dark waters off Catalina I believe. It didn't end well.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

A crappy plan as it turned out:/

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[–] chilone (17266) 5 years ago

The only ones that matter are Ann and Nancy. ;)

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

35 million records sold is a compelling argument!

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Right. I heard a couple of his songs and didn't think he was bad, just not good enough to make it and definitely not teeny-bopper hit material!

Reminds me of Hitler and his being a frustrated failed painter. IMO even if they'd managed to be successful, they were who they were and it wasn't going to end well.

I don't have to read the book, I was there! Just a kid, but I remember it. McQueen wasn't the only person who armed himself. The whole city was in shock and fear. No one knew who did it then, so it was that there was some madman, or group of them, out slaughtering people. No one knew why. Fear grew more intense when they struck again at the LaBiancas.

I didn't live that far from the first murders. It was difficult comprehending something so awful had happened a few miles away. I remember that morning, hearing about it. It was a hot sunny summer morning, just like the one before it, which had been like any other.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

Pretty sick crimes

I was 4 years old when they arrested The .44 Caliber Killer David Berkowitz less than 10 blocks from my childhood home in Yonkers

I remember the neighborhood parents talking about it but it was pretty hard to process as a small kid

There certainly are some awful loons out there but I'd like to think we greatly out number them!

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Berkowitz was less than 10 blocks away from your home? Damn, that is scary. Yeah, when you're just a little kid, this kind of stuff is very hard to process. Heck, it's hard enough to process as an adult.

Definitely the good outnumber the bad, by a long shot.

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[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

I thought McQueen got spooked because he had planned to attend Sharon Tate's dinner party the night she was murdered until his fling talked him out it and they decided to stay home instead. He was convinced he had dodged fate and started packing heat.

It came out later McQueen (recounted by Bugliosi) had good reason to be spooked. He was on Manson's hit list after Charlie confronted him about rejecting his screenplay and McQueen broke his nose in the ensuing scuffle.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I have an older cousin who has been lost to the JW for about 40 years. Keeps waiting for the new system.

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[–] GlenEllyn (21085) 5 years ago

I had some JWs here just the other day. They had their young child with them, a little girl about two. Maybe they thought her cuteness would open a few doors. Nope, not here. And "no thanks" to their little pamphlet, either.

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[–] slimone (7996) 5 years ago

They come to my door now and then.

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[–] eYeDEF (5050) 5 years ago

They still peddle that Watchtower newsletter?

I do wonder whether the current generation JWs are even aware of their own history. What kind of religious revisionism do they preach to themselves to justify their continued faith after their numerous failed prophecies of armageddon?

Especially when they all gathered in a cave in 1975 expecting the world to end and it just didn't. How does an apocalyptic end-times religion like that even survive such a thing?

It's bizarre how they managed to snag Prince into the ranks of the converted. Imagine him showing up and proselytizing at your door.

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[–] mikethemartian (6065) 5 years ago

It’s herd/mob mentality.

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[–] BillHicksFan (10102) 5 years ago

like our government

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

I'm partially to blame for our current climate Bill...I continue to vote despite the fact that they are all clowns!

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[–] BillHicksFan (10102) 5 years ago

Not if you vote for anyone outside the 2-party system, unless they are amazing. The only vote I'm proud of is Ralph Nader, whose been working on a right-left alliance, finding common ground, and going with that. He's been fighting the good fight for a long time. Great man.

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[–] ShogunofYonkers (71739) 5 years ago

I've always admired Nader, the man spoke his feelings and crashed and burned in
our ridiculous 2 party system...he died with his spurs on!
Good on him

A viable third party would help America immensely...I'm not registered in any party but I tend to vote Republican...some of my work pals are Dems and none of us are thrilled with any of these bozos anymore

The problem is that big business donates heavily to the Elephants and all of the Hollywood money goes to the Donkeys...I don't hold much hope that a legit third option will come along in our lifetime Bill...

The libertarians are quite interesting and sensible...I doubt they have the required loot to make a real run though

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[–] BillHicksFan (10102) 5 years ago

I don't want to reduce myself to a political label, as I have never registered with a party. I'm flexible, and I understand old formulas can't work in a modern society. I lean left, and I couldn't vote for Clinton or Trump.

We should have multiple parties, but it seems like we have one party and two branches, only fighting for control, not changing anything. History also shows that a conservative can get away with the most liberal stuff, and vice-versa because their partisans will spend their life defending them.

Nixon said "the last thing I'll ever do is recognize Red China" - and it was! LOL

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[–] GlenEllyn (21085) 5 years ago

Yes, I remember this. Horrific. Simply horrific.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

That's where the expression "drink the cool aid" comes from, I think.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

yes

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[–] chilone (17266) 5 years ago

Captain Obvious strikes again!! ;)

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

See there's some uncertainty about that.

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[–] mikethemartian (6065) 5 years ago

Is that for certain? Because I have always equated more with “The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test” which was published in 1968.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

Yes, it's for certain. The expression is "Don't drink the Kool-Aid."

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It’s definitely from this. That phrase was not used before this.
Ironically, it wasn’t even kool aid, it was a cheap imitation brand called Flavor Aid. The Kool-Aid company spent millions on PR trying to correct that error until they finally gave up.
www.forbes.com/sites/bruceweinstein/2018/03/29/two-great-reasons-to-stop-saying-i-drank-the-kool-aid/amp/

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[–] sslssg (27695) 5 years ago

Watching Jonestown:Terror in the Jungle currently. I've watched other documentaries on it as well. It's fascinating how people can desire so much to belong to something and the things they are willing to do. Heaven's Gate was a weird one too.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Remember the Canadian cult led by Roch Thériault

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roch_Th%C3%A9riault

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[–] sslssg (27695) 5 years ago

I had totally forgotten about him. He was pretty nasty.

At least these ones mentioned have kept most of the murder within their groups, not like the Manson family or Aum Shinrikyo.

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[–] Eric56 (4580) 5 years ago

I don't believe it was a mass suicide. It was mass murder! The followers were forced to drink the poison at gunpoint from Jones' henchman. The most chilling part is hearing the children dying on the audiotape. :(

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 5 years ago

I agree. Some may have willingly taken it, but most were forced.

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[–] Eric56 (4580) 5 years ago

Yep. And this all happened shortly after they killed that Congressman and some news reporters when they were trying to leave Guyana. I believe they took some defectors too.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

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