MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > Would anybody like to debate vaccines?

Would anybody like to debate vaccines?


I'm against them. Take any approach you want.

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Polio might cramp my style

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SV-40 will make you bananas.

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I'm possibly already bananas...I'm not scared of bananas
Measles, mumps and rubella on the other hand...Needle please!

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Same here.

I'm bananas. I like bananas. Nothing wrong with bananas.

Death on the other hand...not so keen...

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Considering SV40 has not been present in any vaccine since 1963, it's a moot point.

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Thanks Dr Google. You're right, it won't actually make you bananas just because it's a monkey virus.

SV-40 was never in any vaccines as far as they were concerned, until it was admitted two decades after the fact. The point is he made a casual remark about polio, so I replied in kind about a relevant contaminant. If you're going to get technical you'd better be sure to tell him they haven't manufactured any iron lungs since 1963 either, and the only cases of polio are caused by the vaccine itself.

Contamination seems to be an unavoidable problem. Most probably aren't even anything to worry about. But don't pretend they've gone away. Here's a scary thought. What if there's no longer one single major contaminate? Hope you don't get a bad batch.

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Vaccination saves people from terrible suffering, illnesses and even death

You must be joking...I'm going to assume you are joking
Har-Har!

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Why are you against them?

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I'll try to give a decent overview.

I think generally they're made very poorly, for example using the original strain of mumps from half a century ago and thus no longer effective, no quality control for contamination, and with all kinds of toxic additives for cost cutting.

The government distorts incentives by absorbing all liability, purchasing them on our behalf, mandating them, playing politics with licenses and schedules, using them for secret research, etc...

The reason we don't seem to have outbreaks is because of improved sanitation and hygiene. It's a trend that long outpaced any apparent improvement from vaccine introductions. When we do have outbreaks, which are cyclical, most of the people involved are fully vaccinated children. We don't generally see them in adults even though vaccines wear off and adults don't get booster shots. There's no herd immunity.

Acute infectious diseases said to be prevented by vaccines are usually very mild and probably good for us in terms of building our immune systems, like chicken pox. Our society suffers from chronic illness. Lifelong debilitating autoimmune conditions are epidemic.

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How do you know they are doing secret research if the research is secret?

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πŸ˜‚

πŸ‘

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:-D

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https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/us-apologizes-for-60-year-old-unethical-syphilis-study-in-guatemala

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius issued a joint statement apologizing for the experiments


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

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Improved hygiene and sanitation will not protect you against measles and other infectious diseases. They're airborne so no amount of washing your hands or whatever is going to keep you from catching them. It helps with some diseases, but not all.

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Please don't have children then. For their sake and the sake of our own.

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As someone who just went through chemotherapy, I'm scared to leave my house. I've had all my vaccines and yet those who are against them have brought measles back. If I come into contact with the virus I could die.

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I'm sorry to read this sslsg.

Good luck to you getting this message out there! We need to combat this ignorance.

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Sorry to hear this
Best of health and best wishes to you friend

You are a toughie, you never let on 'til now!
Much respect

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This ^^^ is one of the many reasons why vaccines are a good thing.

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I had the Shingrix vaccine recently as I had ckickenpox as a kid. It is strong.

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If you were vaccinated, It sounds like you don't trust it to protect you.

You might be onto something. The MMR wasn't widely adopted until the 1980s, so anyone born before then probably never got it. That's most people. At the time, they told us the vaccine would last us lifelong. But concerned scientists are now insisting that it wears off and we need to get booster shots as adults ever four years for life. Likely it isn't wearing off, it just never worked to begin with. Merck has a monopoly license to produce the MMR. There's a lawsuit against them by their own scientists alleging the trials are faked. I wouldn't trust it, so I agree with you there.

As for the outbreaks, viruses don't spontaneously form on people just because they didn't buy a vaccine. That's not how outbreaks start. Usually outbreaks spread in impoverished areas where children play in sewage. The MMR is a live virus, which means potentially it can be reinvigorated as it makes its way to the dump. Anti-vaxxers tend to be affluent and urbane. You'd like to blame them but you'd have a better case against immigrants.

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At the time, they told us the vaccine would last us lifelong.

Science advances.

And if you've had the two-shot vaccine - no, you do not need boosters every four years for life. Measles is an airborne-disease, passed person-to-person, not through "playing in sewage."

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The reason why I am concerned is because I am immunocompromised due to chemotherapy to treat MS. When my immune system rebuilds itself I won't be concerned, but over the next two years I will be killing the lymphocytes over and over again.

Now I did get a vaccination booster before I did the first treatment, so I'm hoping that helps. But the measles virus can stay in the air up to two hours after someone infected coughs or sneezes, so how does one avoid that?


I was born before the 80s and I was vaccinated for measles.

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there's no debate.
you are wrong.
vaccines are an incontestable good. if you're against them, then either you prefer death & disease or you don't know what you're talking about.
either way, i doubt there's any sense in actually talking to you.

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I know a family who lost their daughter after she developed a brain disease caused by measles which she had several years before, it just laid dormant in her for all that time while she appeared to be a perfectly healthy girl, then suddenly she started having symptoms and was gone in like a month. She only got 7 years because her parents didn't vaccinate her. All they had to do was go to the doctor and give her that shot and she would've still been here. They indirectly killed their own child and now they have to live with the grief and guilt for the rest of their lifes.

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"The science is settled". Nobody says that when debating flat earth. You just explain how the earth is round.

How about this. America has by far the most aggressive vaccine schedule in the world. Why don't Sweden or Japan give as many vaccines or give them as early as America does? Are Sweden and Japan "not worth talking to"?

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I'm Pro-vaccination and don't want a debate, but I do have a question....

Do you think vaccines may be responsible for the rise in certain autoimmune diseases, specifically crohns and ulcerative colitis? These afflictions were basically unheard of back in the day.

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Just wondering when back in the day is?

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Well I'm 32, so I'm talking back in my parents day, who were born in the 50's.

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Okay. I don't know about ulcerative colitis, but I know at least 4 women who are in their 60s and 70s that have had crohns my whole life.

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I also think that there are some diseases/conditions where doctors are better at diagnosing them. Autism is one, I think. Is there more autism or just more people being diagnosed with it? People who may have been labeled as "different" or whatever, now have more information and help available for their condition. As I said in an earlier comment, science makes advances.

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undiagnosed more than likely

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I doubt it. In some western countries, its on the rise tenfold since the 60's. It's even appearing in newly industrialized countries that have no history of it such as India, China and South Korea.

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Those two in particular may have more to do with changing diets, for example dwarf wheat in the 1970s which is probably disruptive to the gut lining and would be passed on epigenetically. Livestock seem to get ulcerative colitis and it could be from grain in general. I would research from that angle for the same reason I would ask a bodybuilder over a nutritionist for diet advice.

Vaccines by their nature can derange the immune system, particularly when cost cutting aluminum adjuvants are used in place of a full dose of the real antigen. I would suspect this can prime us to be more susceptible to problems from other stressors in the environment at the least, if not directly cause them.

Remember the Joker's evil scheme from Batman 1989. He put small doses of chemicals in many products that didn't do anything on their own, but made you insane when combined.

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The Modern Western Diet really isn't that healthy. I've ditched all grains, seeds and anything processed. Mine isn't super bad, so I'm not going to medical route.

If your interested in traditional diets, Weston A Prices research is fascinating.

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Remember the Joker's evil scheme from Batman 1989. He put small doses of chemicals in many products that didn't do anything on their own, but made you insane when combined.


You're using fiction to support your argument?? πŸ™„

Done.

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My father was born long before the 50s and long before aggressive vaccination, and he had ulcerative colitis, which I INHERITED from him and now have. No vaccines involved. This topic is not a debate. It’s a troll, a harangue, an agenda, not a Platonic search for the truth. The OP is a refugee from the Politics boards, the slums of MC.

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Point for you, RKane!

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Eisenhower had colitis. He was born in 1890.

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He had Crohns Disease and wasn't diagnsoed until 1956. I never said it didn't exist back then, I said it wasn't nearly as common as it is today and cases are only increasing...Why is that?

By the way, Kennedy had crohns as well.

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hence my point on it being an undiagnosed or underdiagnosed condition.

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Do you have any research your not sharing or is this purely a theory? Shitting blood and mucous up to 20 times a day and experimenting some of the worse cramps you could ever imagine isn't going to go undiagnosed for long. Ask any GI doctor and they will say its much more common in this day and age.

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Ya, I really didn't think vaccines had anything to do with it, but I felt it was worth it to ask since I've been researching it for a while now. From what I've found, it was extremely uncommon back then and now 1.6 million people have IBD. Oddly enough, no one in my family has it.

About the disease....I am having great success on the SCD Diet and I'm taking something called Mutaflor (E Coli Nissle), which is clinically proven to maintain remission. I absolutely refuse to take steroids and immunosupressants.

https://ubiome.com/blog/post/100-years-later-lone-german-soldier-whose-poop-fights/

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Vaccines have benefited humanity ever since Edward Jenner developed the first one in 1796. Diseases such as smallpox, diphtheria, and a number of others devastated entire populations for centuries before that. Are you aware of the reason why children used to die so frequently in the past? It wasn't just due to malnutrition or disasters. Children were exposed to diseases that are unheard of these days BECAUSE we have vaccines. Polio was a nightmare disease to have to deal with until the 1950s, and it was because of the pioneering work they did with vaccines in that time, that 60 years' worth of generations of people were saved from the doom of losing their ability to walk or use their brains.

And now, because of a few isolated incidents of "autism outbreak" in California in the 80s and 90s, we have a bunch of really stupid parents who have put their kids in danger because they heard about a few parents' kids developing autism after supposedly getting vaccines. Autism is NOT a disease you can "catch." It is genetic, and it is merely a coincidence that those kids manifested the condition they were born with around that time, which happens whether they get vaccines or not. Now, we have tons of kids in danger of being exposed to things like mumps, rubella, and other diseases that had been mostly wiped out for the past 60 years, due to a few idiot parents still listening to those urban legends. It is also insulting to the parents of actual autistic kids, because the previous group acts like it's a defect that can be avoided.

While there are a few risks of developing a mild fever for a day or two because of a vaccine, that is normal. Most of the time, however, the kids don't show any reaction, and then are immune for life.

Anyone who is stupid enough to believe the conspiracy theories behind govt.-issued vaccines should take their tinfoil hats off and go back to school.

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After hearing about all the toxic shit they put into vaccines I wish I never got mine when I was a kid. I don't trust the kinda bullshit they put in them...

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