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What Say Those Posters Who Say Christianphobia Isn’t A Real Thing?


“Select reporting: 120 christians slaughtered by Muslim herdsmen in Nigeria. Where’s media outcry?”

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2019/03/16/select-reporting-120-christians-slaughtered-by-muslim-herdsmen-in-nigeria-wheres-media-outcry-733836

“While the events that transpired in New Zealand on Friday were horrific and deserved to be condemned, the American mainstream media’s focus on those attacks specifically versus the myriads of attacks that occur daily across the world seems odd and perhaps even telling.”

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/christian-attacks.aspx

“List of Islamic Terror Attacks on Christians”

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Does anyone actually say that it isn't a real thing?

I think that the reason why no outcry in the west about Nigeria, is that it's not a western culture society. It may not be right, but people usually only care about things they can relate to. When you look at that list, how many of those attacks were in western countries?

Then you look at the fact that currently in the US, 2/3 of the terrorism in the US is done by right wing extremists.

Does that mean that I think that they have been no attacks against Christians in the US? In the rest of the world? Hell no! But is it a competition? Are we seriously looking to see which side kills more?

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ssissg,

You are correct in stating more acts of terror are done by right wing extremists, but with less deaths than those perpetrated by Islamic extremists. I’m curious to know the reason why less attacks are committed by radical Muslims. Could it be the more radical Muslims are on the government radar so therefore the attacks have been stopped? And, what is considered terror? The Oklahoma Federal Bldg bombing, the Las Vegas massacre? The Fort Hood shooting was definitely done by a Muslim, but the Obama Admin. deemed it “Work Place Violence” resulting in less aid to the victims. The woman beheaded at work?

“What’s clear is that far right groups have been tied to more terror incidents, often to deadly attacks or property damage. Meanwhile, Islamic jihadist inspired groups, while responsible for fewer terror attacks, have killed far more people on U.S. soil in recent decades.”

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I really don't have any answers, but I also think that Muslims in the "west" tend to be less radical on the whole. We are lucky that the standard of living is just that much better here. So those who have immigrated aren't as likely to radicalized. That's not to say that it is impossible, because we know that that isn't true. But I think that those who do tend to carry out attacks here are the ones who have been marginalized and made to feel less.

Isn't that the same for most of the individuals that carry out such attacks, no matter what nationality or religion one is? Perhaps the reason why it seems to be more "neo nazi" types carrying out these attacks in the US is that they are the ones who are feeling threatened? I also think that in the US most attacks are carried out with guns. I mean if anyone started beheading in the USA there would be such an outcry, but because guns are valued and almost cherished that would be the weapon to use, because nothing will ever change.

Like I said at the start, I really have no answers only supposition, or maybe not even that. I have never been in a situation where I have been compelled to carry out such an act so I have no understanding. The religion of a killer doesn't make a terrorist, it's the motivation behind the attack. Like the Pulse shooting was originally thought to be a terror attack, but upon further investigation it wasn't. Nor was the Las Vegas shooting. Whereas the Quebec mosque shooting was a terror attack because the shooter was sending a message to both the government and Muslim migrants.

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"But I think that those who do tend to carry out attacks here are the ones who have been marginalized and made to feel less."

Could you people just stop bringing up that lame excuse? Are muslims the only marginalized group? Where are all the gay terrorists? Or the Asian terrorists? Or any non-muslim immigrant terrorist? Or Jewish terrorists? I don't even know any feminist terrorists. There are not that many African-American terrorists if you look at how large that group is and how much fuss there is about their marginalization.

And how the hell were the Tsarnaev brothers marginalized? As far as I can tell Dzhokhar was popular and had a bright future ahead of him.

If they're marginalized they do it to themselves by choosing a life of crime instead of an education that the gorvernment provides to them all. Like the French hostage taker at the Jewish supermarkt who gave up his internship at Coca-Cola to become a muslim radical. Or the two Belgian brothers who became radicalized after their career as rappers failed.

I have no doubts these terrorists are mentally unstable, but they grow up in a culture that does not have a lot of respect for Western culture and there are a lot of islamists who preach their hatred in mosques and on the internet, so it's easy for these guy to fall for all that crap.

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Stratego,

Very well said. As Mulder (X-Files) said “The truth is out there.” We all need to recognize it for what it is....acts of Islamic terror. The Fort Hood massacre carried out by Major Nidal Malik Hasan, (Virginian born Muslim) left 13 unarmed soldiers dead and more than 30 wounded was deemed an act of “work place violence”! It’s only going to get worse.

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And what do you propose we do about it?

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"You people" I really would like to know what you mean by that.

I wasn't talking about Muslims being the ones feeling marginalized, and I'm not saying that those who feel marginalized actually are. Also, there isn't one size fits all terrorist. I think that marginalization can be what leads someone into radicalization. Leaders of these groups know who to look for, and what to look for in an individual to get them to act.

I think I also used the word threatened. I don't even mean physically threatened. But when it comes to a lot of white nationalists, it's because they feel their way of life is being threatened. Is it true? I don't see how, but I don't know. Just like I don't see how people getting married affects anyone else's marriage.

Most terrorism is either in the name of religion or politics. Or both. Historically the US has less terror attacks currently than they have in the last 50 years. In the 70's about 50% of attacks were perpetrated by left wing groups. I don't know all the demographics on those but I do know that the Black Panthers did have a part in some of those. My point with this is that the groups that become radicalized change over time. I don't think that we can just demonize one group of people. I think that we need to look at what it is that causes people to become so radicalized that they could behead someone, or go into a place of worship and shoot a bunch of people just for who they are.

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""You people" I really would like to know what you mean by that."

Well, I've noticed that most people who use that argument share a similar belief system. Like the folks at CNN.

No, I don't believe they even feel marginalized. If anything, they feel part of a community that is superior to everbody else. They don't feel threatened by the rest of us, just annoyed.

Muslim terrorism is nothing new, it's been going on for decades, centuries if you count the violence between the different muslim factions.

Most people are not demonizing a whole group. But it's problematic if no one will openly acknowledge that this community has some serious issues.

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By the time the commit the acts of terrorism, you are right, they most likely feel very much part of a community. It's how does one get to the point where they want to kill others.

I don't see where anyone is denying that there is a problem. There certainly is. But to quote you

Most people are not demonizing a whole group. But it's problematic if no one will openly acknowledge that this community has some serious issues.
This doesn't just apply to Muslims. That's my point. It's not just one group that becomes radicalized. When we ignore B because A has done worse things, it doesn't mean that B isn't still doing bad things.

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They grow up in a community that already feels that way, that's one of the problems.

They certainly are denying the problem. Any critcism of Islam is immediately called Islamophobia, especially by the muslim community itself. I honestly don't see enough effort coming from them.

I see it happening right now with the attack here in Holland. Muslums, media and politicians are trying to downplay it and put the blame on the far right.

The crimes commited by "A" are just much more urgent and not enough is done about it.

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I thought that it was a man shooting at a family member and then shot others who tried to help her? I am not saying that that isn't a horrible crime, especially if it was an honour killing. But just because a shooter is Muslim, it does not mean it's a terror attack. I'm also not saying that it wasn't a terror attack. I honestly do not know enough about it, and media a half a world away isn't always reliable. I don't know what is being blamed on the far right. It's just funny to me that Muslim's views are seen as separate from the far right, because the values and goals seem to be similar, just for different groups of people.

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Oh, we have enough other crimes committed by muslims to realize this is something different.

Right now, there's no evidence a family member was the target. It's not the ex he supposedly raped. Two of the dead are white people with Dutch names, one of them a 19-year old girl. And he shot 8 people in total. He yelled Allahu Akbar, left a note about Allah and has ties to muslim radicals. There's certainly MORE to it than simply a revenge killing, but that's not what the media wants us to think. On tv they were already blaming it on the attack in New Zealand and right wing politicians. It's like they immediately go in defensive mode when it involves a muslim.

I doubt you guys outside of the Netherlands are going to hear more about this.

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Stratego,

“I doubt you guys outside of the Netherlands are going to hear more about this.”

Apparently it’s old news as it wasn’t Muslims being murdered. The mosque shooting was heard about over and over ad nauseam.

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Well said, Stratego!

😎

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ssissg,
“When you look at that list, how many of those attacks were in western countries?”

All of us need to pay more attention to what is occurring in the West. Is it the new norm? Are we going to continue to stay asleep over the truth of what is happening in our country, the US, as well as others? The following is a list of Islamic terror attacks on US soil.

“Studies show that between 5 - 25% of Muslims in America believe that violence in defense of Islam is justified. The number of potential terrorists therefore grows proportionately with the overall number, even if only a small minority actually plot attacks.“

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/american-attacks.aspx

“Immigrants to America have killed and have plotted to kill. However, the real threat comes from successive generations of Muslims living in the West, which have proven to be more radical and more dangerous (overall) than their parents. Muslim migration thus means that more Americans will die.”

Case in point the pressure cooker bomb at the Boston Marathon in 2013. How many on the list have we heard about? Authorities don’t want to classify these events as acts of terror by radical Islamics for fear of an uprising by the American people....not just right wingers.

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A lot of those were not terror attacks.

Again, I'm not American, my country has it's own problems. I have said no where that radical Muslims are not an issue. I think that anyone can be radicalized and am more interested in the psychology behind these attacks than the religion or colour of skin of the attackers.

You started this thread asking why attacks on Christians are ignored. I still don't think that anyone is ignoring them.

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All were terror attacks. If someone comes after me with a knife, a sword, a gun, a car or truck it’s an act of terror! Some may say they were an act of assault, but when the perpetrator is a Muslim shouting “Allah Akbar” it’s definitely an act of Muslim terror!

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So I could go out and shoot someone, yell Allah Akbar and it's an act of terror? I disagree.

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If you were Muslim. But, I’m quite sure the victim would be terrorized regardless. To me using the word assault is sugar coating an act of agression. When a woman, a child, a pet is constantly being beaten they would feel terror.

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Just threatening to kill someone is considered, under the law, a terroristic threat and is a felony. If it should involve the U.S. Postal Service, say as in hate-mail, it becomes a federal crime. Just some food for thought. Do you think that if someone is receiving death threats that person isn't feeling terrorized?

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For something to be an act of terrorism it needs to be for political purposes and affect a larger audience the immediate victims.

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So basically, you're refuting what's plainly stated in a book of law.

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Which book of law is this? Death threats are criminal, no argument but they aren't necessarily terror threats. I'm not sure where you are getting your facts, but this conversation is so far off where it started.

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Never mind. It's obvious your mind is closed to reality and facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terroristic_threat

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I'm not closed minded at all. I've stated that Muslims are responsible for terror attacks. I'm also stating that right wing extremists in the US are also responsible. I even said that in the 60's and 70's in the US it was the left wing that were the terrorists.

Wikipedia is not a reputable source. I could go in and edit any page at any time. I was looking at government statistics.

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The information provided in the link is reputable enough. If you really cared, you could dig and look at other sources and see that the basic information overlaps. I'm the type to do my own homework. Like I said to begin with, I was just offering this as food for thought. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

Like I also said, never mind because I don't care to get into a long, drawn out argument with you about this, which is often the case in these types of topics and why so many here are opposed to them.

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So, you have said that threatening to kill someone is terrorism, so by that logic wouldn't killing someone be terrorism? Who decides? I will offer this for thought.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-murder-vs-terrorism-1.4344766

Please don't assume that I don't do my 'homework'. I can say the same to you that you could look up the definition of terrorism and what makes an attack a terror attack compared to not. You can also look up the statistics of terror attacks in the US.

I could show you charts that show that ISIL is still the biggest terror threat in the world, followed by al qaeda. So I am certainly not denying that Islamic terrorism isn't a threat to this world. I can also show you statistics that show that the majority of those attacks are happening in the middle east and Africa, not the west. I could also show data that shows that in 2017 out of the 65 terror attacks in the US that 37 of those were done by right wing extremists, while only 7 were done by Islamic extremists. There were 10 that were unknown so you could attribute all of those to Islam as well, but that's still fewer than the right wing. You could also look all that up yourself if you wanted. I also look at the sources of the statistics that I find to see if they are a right/left/ or neutral source. I look to see who funds the studies, and who has gathered the statistics. So when I say that Wikipedia isn't reputable, I do stand by that. I don't know who has edited it or added to it.

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this conversation is so far off where it started


Then why are you so insistent on reigniting this argument with me when my post was basically innocuous ? I said never mind twice now. It's really looking like you want to argue just for the sake of arguing.

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I do apologize that you think that I'm just trying to argue. I'm really not.

When you say things like

Never mind. It's obvious your mind is closed to reality and facts

and then

If you really cared, you could dig and look at other sources and see that the basic information overlaps. I'm the type to do my own homework.

I really thought that you wanted to continue the conversation. Your intent may have been innocuous, but perhaps you can see where it may have seemed a little differently to me. Or not.




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" Just food for thought " seems pretty clear to me about my intent.

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ssissg,

I debated whether I should ignite this topic again, but against my better judgement I have to inquire where is the data you referenced. The data re: the right wing extremists were responsible for more attacks in the US.

I am posting again the following which belies that data. When I posted the info in a prior reply you wrote “A lot of those weren’t terror attacks.” Which ones in the list do you not deem terror attacks? Honor murders committed by radical Muslims are still terror attacks for the victim. These types of attacks are the result of Sharia Law which are unconstitutional.

“since 9/11, an additional 158 Americans have been killed in 53 separate acts of deadly Islamic terror or Islam-related honor killing in the United States.”

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/american-attacks.aspx

The above does not include the murderous scum who committed the horrific slaughter in Las Vegas.

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I was not going to respond as well. I'm really not trying to fight. I posted one article from the CBC that talks about the difference between mass killings and terrorism. I can post more if you would like, but I think that it won't make a difference to your opinion. Just quick google search of the definition of terrorism gives me this.
ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/Submit
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Political aims is the key point here. That is why an honour killing isn't terrorism. This is why the Las Vegas shooting and school shootings are not considered terror attacks, whereas the NZ shootings were an act of terrorism.

I need to repeat myself constantly in this thread because no where I have I said that Islamic extremists are not responsible for terror attacks. Especially not worldwide as I believe I have stated that ISIL, Al Qaeda, and Boko Haram are the top three terror groups in the world.

I will give you some links from where I got my data.

This shows that the majority of attacks are in Islamic countries which is something that I have not denied https://www.statista.com/statistics/236983/terrorist-attacks-by-country/

This shows data back to the 70's and the shifts in ideologies of perpetrators from left wing to jihadists. https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_IdeologicalMotivationsOfTerrorismInUS_Nov2017.pdf

This is about right wing extremism on the rise with stats that come after previous site https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

As for the numbers on right wing terror attacks there is this https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled-by-right-wing-extremists/
and
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?utm_term=.930ae62a0d18

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This shows slightly different numbers but still shows that right wing extremism is on the rise in the US http://visionofhumanity.org/app/uploads/2018/12/Global-Terrorism-Index-2018.pdf

So, I hope that helps

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Thanks for responding. You have given me a lot of reading to do. The following is from an NPR article:

“To be charged with terrorism, a person has to be suspected of acting on behalf of one of nearly 60 groups that the State Department has declared a foreign terrorist organization. Some are well-known, including the Islamic State and al-Qaida, while others are far more obscure. Most, but not all, are Islamist.“

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/02/555170250/what-is-and-isnt-considered-domestic-terrorism

One thing we have in this country which gives Law Enforcement a wider latitude in defining Terrorism is “The Patriot Act”.

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So, may I ask you what your argument here even is? Are you denying that right wing extremists are not on the rise in the US? Or is it the semantics of the law? Or is it that any attack by a Muslim is terrorism, but if the same crime is committed by a Christian it's not?

I think that even though it's not what he was charged with, most people would concur that Capone was a gangster. So even though McVeigh was not charged with terrorism, most would agree that he was a terrorist.

While the law in the US may not have a domestic terror charge, the FBI certainly has a list of domestic terror organizations, and a watch of Home Grown Extremists https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

So I will end this saying that I don't even know what we are debating anymore. I think that Islamic terrorism is a threat, and I also think that there are other threats on the rise in this world.

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“Are you denying that right wing extremists are not on the rise in the US?“ I’m not sure.

“Or is it that any attack by a Muslim is terrorism, but if the same crime is committed by a Christian it's not?” Definitely NOT Christian, just an evildoer. A true follower of Christ will not commit such acts so don’t equate me with the souless ones who do. But, a Muslim shouting “Allah Akbar” while he murders innocents is definitely terrorism.

Even the authorities are unable to define some of the actions. They drove themselves crazy trying to find out why Stephen Paddock massacred so many in Las Vegas. Sometimes an act of evil cannot be explained. Some evil doers are referred as right wing because that’s the only answer for the action....he’s white so he’s right wing. In the ‘70’s there were many left wing actions which resulted in deaths. Evil has no boundaries when permitted to enter.

I was shocked McVeigh’s horrific action wasn’t classified as domestic terrorism! He should have been put before a firing squad instead of the drip. He most definitely caused terror in Oklahoma.

I’m not debating or arguing...I’m learning. I will continue to refer to those who commit such horrendous deeds as evil/terrorists be they Muslim, White (not Christian), Black, Brown, etc.

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Ok, I'm going to have to bow out of any further discussion on this. Your denial that there are those who have, and will. commit acts of violence in the name of Christ is where we will have to disagree upon and leave it at that.

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OK, sorry I’m not being clear. I’m not in denial. There are those who purport to be Christian and do violence or spew hatred in the name of Christ. The Westboro Baptist Church for one. But, a true follower of Christian principles would not do such heinous acts. My intention was to never argue with you. I appreciate the info you sent me and I’ve run out of room to type.

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Well said!

😎

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"2/3 of the terrorism in the US is done by right wing extremists."??? That's Leftist bullshit! Back that up with a source!


😒

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The real problem is religion, since religious people have been killing each other for centuries.

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Hey, another 🐱!

I can see why you say that, but I think the real problem is bigger than that and is an unfortunate trait of humans. It boils down to tribalism gone bad, and applies to religion, nationalism, the Left/Right, and so on.

Group XXX encounters Group YYY, who believes/thinks/whatever differently, maybe thinks/believes the opposite. Groups XXX and YYY clash (sometimes very violently) because it's not enough to be either XXX or YYY and allow the other to think/believe whatever it is the group they belong to doesn't agree with.

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Do cats read books? 😱

It's true, human beings have been killing each other for centuries... but religion just adds one more unnecessary reason for them to do it.

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Cat, you are absolutely right! Going back to the Crusades or even before.. There have been numerous so called "holy" wars! Pathetic. Isn't one of the ten commandments Thou Shalt Not Kill?????

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Actually it’s “Thou shall not murder” translated from Aramaic. Also, the Crusades occurred to thwart the Muslims from taking more Christian lands....in other words to drive the Muslims back.

“Crusades, military expeditions, beginning in the late 11th century, that were organized by western European Christians in response to centuries of Muslim wars of expansion. Their objectives were to check the spread of Islam, to retake control of the Holy Land in the eastern Mediterranean, to conquer pagan areas, and to recapture formerly Christian territories”

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Amen!


😎

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"The real problem is mommy and daddy. They made me go to church when I was little".

Christianiphobia isn't even word. This deflection to "all religions are bad" only comes up when Christians are being defended. It doesn't come up when the subject is Muslims or Jews. Often the people attacking Christianity are the ones defending against islamophobia and antisemitism.

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I insult all religions, and I never went to church. Proud atheist since birth right here.

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Good one, just what I wanted to say.

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PS The original post is the good one.

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Are you for Christians or Muslims getting murdered, is that what it comes down too these days, or we give you the whole truth let that sink in type of stuff, might as well go back to the darkages

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I have neighbors who are Coptic Christians and it is a crime what has happened to them in Egypt.

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My tenants are Coptic Christians. I'm sure they would rather be raising their young kids in their own country, but they were forced to leave. Some of the nicest people I've ever met.

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They are nice people.

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Just because it is occurring overseas doesn’t make it less important. People need to wake up and smell the caca for what it is....the genocide of the infidels!

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Well, I don't know if you've heard what happened in the Netherlands today. Some muslim nut from Turkey shot up 8 people in a tram, killing 3 of them. First there was talk of a terrorist attack, but know it's supposedly some kind of revenge or honour killing that got out of hand. Even though the guy yelled Allahu Akbar during the attack, left a note talking about Allah and had ties to radical islam. Yeah, I know...

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As I just replied to ssissig,
Authorities want to put the kabash on the truth. It was an act of terror and denoting it something else is....hogwash!!

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No, I have not. Apparently the Leftist Media has managed to cover that up so far.

😎

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Well, it's obvious now that it's a terrorist attack. No connection whatsoever between the killer and the victims. And he only targeted white people. Instead of listening to eye witnesses, the media chose to rely on accounts from friends, neighbours and family of the terrorist.🙄

I actually did see the story on Yahoo news until it became clear he was a muslim and they tried to downplay as a revenge/honour killing. I hope people like sslssg now realize what the truth is.

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Of course it is. It always is, and the Leftist Media always tries to play it down saying it was "workplace violence" or
some other bullshit.

I just checked, and I still can't find it on Yahoo. They're still suppressing it.

And people like sslssg are hard core Liberals. They're either too ignorant to know the truth, or too hard core to admit it.

😒

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[deleted]

It’s as if we’ve been propelled back to the time when Christ, the Apostles and early Christians had to meet in secret.

No, I haven’t heard of Voice of the Martyrs; I will check out the info. Thanks!

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The only thing I like about Christianity or any other religion that is not Islam, is exactly that. They're not Islam.

What say those people who say Atheistphobia isn't a real thing?

People are willing to blame shit on us. Apparently we invented communism. Perhaps it was invented by men who happened to be atheistic, but they don't represent atheism. Many religious people like to think of atheists as savages without morals and that we're out to get people. And no, we're not all Islam apologists. Islam hates non-believers just as much as Christians so don't pretend that radical Muslims don't want us dead just as much.

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Well said, sir! And Agnostiphobia too!

😎

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HodWatt

I’m confused. Were you replying to me?

“Islam hates non-believers just as much as Christians so don't pretend that radical Muslims don't want us dead just as much.”

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I'm just saying, it's not so much the fact that Christians are Christians that radical Islamists want to kill them, but the fact that they're not Muslims. As well as Christians, they also target Jews, atheists and people from other religions. They want Islam to rule the world.

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If you were replying to me, “so don't pretend that radical Muslims don't want us dead just as much.”, where was I pretending that radical Muslims don’t want you dead also?

Radical Muslims want to murder anyone who doesn’t agree with their ideology; be it Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists, etc. They even want to murder other Muslims who don’t adhere to their warped irrational beliefs! Any people whom they deem unfit are considered infidels and should be bombed out of existence!

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