MovieChat Forums > Politics > Instead of endless escalating bickering,...

Instead of endless escalating bickering, can we try to agree on who the badguys really are?


I think the problems are cause by the people who have enough money to
work very hard to undermine political discussion.

When political discussion is stunted and broken the lack of political discussion
leads to a defocusing of the average citizen so they are politically less powerful,
i.e. even completely powerless to the point where these elites are trying to use
there media manipulation monopoly to twist democracy itself in the form of
subverting the last election. Seems because of all the noise the signal that
does get through from this system can manipulate a marginal number of people
that can be amplified or magnified to trick us into letting them completely define
reality. It has led to a spectacularly bad result that most polls seem to indicate
none of us like or are very happy about ... except the lunatics. There are always
lunatics and there always will be lunatics probably, but why do we let them in the
guise of calling it free speech, RUN OUR SYSTEM, OR DOMINATE OUR THOUGHTS

The only ones who have the power to do that are not Democrats, or Antifa, or
Black Lives Matter, Gays, Transexuals, Christians or any other group distraction
from real national and international issues, it is the people who have big businesses,
empires and believe that gives them the right to own everything, socially, economically,
environmentally or militarily. These things are not in the hands of people being
operated for the good of the people almost anywhere, they are interest whose primary
concern is political cancer, to gain control, everything other than that goal is
secondary and local and national governments are manipulated to that end, right
down to the chat board level, because with all this technology and all that money -
they have the means to do that.

So the bad part is that all of our lives are affected negatively by this and we have
no way to complain except to plug into what is an ineffective lunatic system, that
is a decoy to sink and disperse the wants and needs of the American people.

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I...AGREE.🤔

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Let's take one subject at a time and try and use common sense?

Democrats introduced a new policy last year of getting rid of bail.
So if you commit a crime , you are out on the streets in 24 hours.

Republicans are against this.

How can we have a common sense discussion and come up with a answer. Is having no bail a good thing?

Personally I can't see how its logical.
Bail money should generate income.
Too many instances of people being released only to commit more crime.
It feels like it's too great of a gamble for the safyey of society.

The other side argues poor people cant come up with bail.
But isn't that why bail bondsmen are there..to lend money for this situation?


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It's being discussed in the city I live in. Memphis

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You think that the only people to be release from jail ought to be the rich ones then. Is it a problem, and if so how would you solve it? By flapping your goddam gums and whining as usual, huh?

In the grand scheme of things this is a minor issue having nothing to do with the continued existence of the country. Like I wrote in another comment, Republicans are all about bringing up the irrelevant or obtuse and pretending it makes the Democrats wrong. They may be wrong in the case of bail, but there is a problem and at least they are trying to solve it. Just like health care, Republicans criticize but have no solutions except get to be rich so you can afford your health care, or just die.

What is wrong with cash bail?

In effect, the cash bail system criminalizes poverty, as people who are unable to afford bail are detained while they await trial for weeks or even months. Cash bail perpetuates inequities in the justice system that are disproportionately felt by communities of color and those experiencing poverty.

Spending even a few days in jail can result in people losing their job, housing, and even custody of their children. Studies show that pretrial detention can actually increase a person’s likelihood of rearrest upon release, perpetuating an endless cycle of arrest and incarceration. What is more, the cash bail system often leads to the detention of people who do not pose a threat to public safety.

This starts with a presumption of release, which places the burden on prosecutors to prove the need for detention and limits qualifying offenses for detention to only the most serious offenses.

Three out of 5 people in U.S. jails today have not been convicted of a crime. This amounts to nearly half a million people sitting in jails each day, despite the fact that they are legally innocent of the crime with which they have been charged. Most jurisdictions in the country operate a cash bail system, in which the court determines an amount of money that a person has to pay in order to secure their release from detention.

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Isnt that what bail bonds men are for?

To loan those who dont have money.

So its not like the money is not there for them.

Is granting the poor no bail a safety issue for citizens?
Is that less safety worth the trade.

Let's figure a common sese solution.
Is it less or more safe?

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And if you look at the safety issue it makes people less safe.
No bail is a dangerous idea.

Those are the statistics.
And it's sad because Democrats want these people out of jails

But in reality these people commit crimes right when released only to have a longer sentence overall.
The plan is a failure.

But democrats cannot see it or move on and why there Is always division.

Net toxic is the Democrats policy of drivers licenses for illegal aliens .
Common sense says what. Is that a good thing or does it hurt the country?

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> And it's sad because Democrats want these people out of jails

That is BS. It is so disingenuous of you to distort the issue to make Democrats look bad, when if you look at it objectively Republicans really look worse and affect a lot more people. With your Republican programming to always do that, that is the exact point of my initial post.

What Democrats are looking for his is a way to:

In effect, the cash bail system criminalizes poverty, as people who are unable to afford bail are detained while they await trial for weeks or even months. Cash bail perpetuates inequities in the justice system that are disproportionately felt by communities of color and those experiencing poverty.

Spending even a few days in jail can result in people losing their job, housing, and even custody of their children. Studies show that pretrial detention can actually increase a person’s likelihood of rearrest upon release, perpetuating an endless cycle of arrest and incarceration. What is more, the cash bail system often leads to the detention of people who do not pose a threat to public safety.


What is the problem with you people? Why can you never address a problem without turning it into a way to insult more than half the country? Because you hate democracy and feel better when other people are miserable. That is a lot of the kind of people who are Republicans. You want and support a justice system that is unjust to the people you do not like, and then you posture hugging the flag or holding the Bible when so many are immoral haters.

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You keep repeating that argument and I keep responding...
For people whon cannot pay bail, there are bail bondsmen who loan the money.
And it's not a difficult thing because 90% of that money is given back .

Are we getting anywhere, what is the common sense ground.
No bail seems radical.
No bail seems like its left for the public.
No bail in the long run will keep people locked up longer. Sometimes it's for their own safety.

I will post the article later , but a girl by be robbed a store was let out because of no bail, same day she broke into a school and tried to start a fire. Let out , the next say she was arrested for spray painting a wall.

Her mother was crying. Because she said if her daughter was kept in jail. 2 of those other crimes would not have happened.
Now her daughter looking at more charges, more jail time.

We should be able to get to a bottom line common sense ground that is beneficial to the citizens.

And I dont think no cash bail is the answer. So Democrats have to walk away on this one.

Next point will be the same.
Democrats leading with compassion and no common sense..



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Meanwhile you have no problem with Trump pardoning his rich friends.

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> For people whon cannot pay bail, there are bail bondsmen who loan the money.

Not relevant, not an answer.

I don't know what the recommendation is, but your attempts to spin this in the most fear-mongering way is akin to those who twist Black Lives Matter or Defund The Police into Antifa ... it's just not so.

Just because some people who call themselves Democrats say, or are reported why the Right-wing as saying something that is problematic does not mean that is what is going to happen, and it also does not mean Republicans do not have worse suggestions, such as those who support QANON or Stop The Steal.

Your whole argument is just an alternative to name-calling the Democrats. You seem to spend all day every day on that too. Is it your job? Do you get money for posting these inane claims?

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See the debate ended and I have no idea what your going on about.
No cash bail was a Democrat pushed law.

And the whole argument is poor not access to cash and you say bail bondsmen are not relevant?
The pro argument seems weak and unsafe.

And you will find that with many Democrat backed platforms.

All compassion and no common sense.


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People who drive on the public roads need to be managed and responsible.
To not give people who we have so many of them in the country to do the
work we all seem to refuse to pay for in menial jobs and picking our fruits
and vegetables some kind of way to drive or to exist in the country is to
make them a criminal class who can be totally exploited and if they stand
up for themselves they can lose everything they have.

Apparently you feel that your personal financial benefit from that inhuman
system over-rides the ethical constraints against slavery and exploitation.

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Just like health care, Republicans criticize but have no solutions except get to be rich so you can afford your health care, or just die.


I’m not even close to rich. Lower middle class. I have health care. 🤷🏻‍♂️
And health care professionals are required by law to treat every life threatening situation regardless of insurance or income status. They do not let people “just die” because they have no insurance. I work in health care. I do training modules on these things every year. No one is going to “just die.” Nice dramatic effect though.

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That's not true. The rich and well connected received antibodies to treat their covid. The rest of us aren't important enough to live.

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One problem I see is that even if the elites don't find something to bicker about, the right-wingers will find something to complain about on their own. Gay marriage is over and done, yet right-wingers will still complain about it despite nothing really calling for them to do so. It almost feels like right-wingers prefer the distraction every time they raise their pitchforks.

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Just about every Right-wing group is funded from outside and most of them are fake. The opposite, anything community or actually Left-wing is monitored very closely by police and intelligence. I remember in the movie Fahrenheit 9-11 how a community group was infiltrated by the local police, and they only found out because they happened to see that a police officer in a neighboring community happened to die and he was the one infiltrating their group. Like most of the raucous Right-wing comments here are fakes as well.

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The super rich are the puppetmasters who have created a divide and conquer strategy to get the other classes to fight among themselves. Increasing economic inequality since the 1980s is no accident.

Starting in 1978, the super rich took a very active role in changing tax policy, legislation, increasing lobbying groups, and increasing media, judicial, educational and political influence to benefit themselves and harm everyone else. Profit is all they care about! (Before that time, most Americans were progressing economically since the New Deal had been established.)

Public opinion is manipulated through media they own and by politicians they pay.

Saving the environment, unions, global warming and national healthcare used to be supported by both Republicans and Democrats until the rich decided to use them to divide.

400,000 Americans are dead because a bunch of rich people met in a room and decided their profit was more important than our lives. They wanted Americans to ignore the health crisis and continue to shop. They met repeatedly with political leaders to dictate policy toward covid. The "Liberate" campaign was their idea!

Groups like The Tea Party were actually funded and created by the superrich to prevent policy changes which could benefit most Americans. They were only made to appear to be grassroots.

"Real power comes not from forcing people to do what you want but from changing the way people think, so they want to do what you want."
Harvard Business School policy scientist Gautam Mukunda

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