Boxing is so Corrupt
After losing the fight, being the inferior fighter, and still being caught juicing he still gets the bigger check.
shareWonder what fight this was....could be many I suppose...
shareAll!
shareCanelo....Dillian Whyte....who am I missing?
shareI think I was aiming at Canelo.
But you can add tyson fury, roid jones, de la hoya, mike tyson, chavez jr, andre ward, choloatito.
Andre Ward?
Roman Gonzalez?
Are we to assume everyone is trying to gain an advantage, and having Victor Conte around might be a bad look?
Did u see the krusher fight?
Roman is usually bigger, and faster than his opponents and even if he loses he gets help from behind the ropes.
Saw both Ward/Kovalev fights, good scraps, too bad both are mired in controversy...
First one, not so bad, it was close, thought Kovalev won close, not bothered either way, other than Ward thinking he won going away....second fight, a shytshow, a display of not necessarily crossing the line (or beltline), but of stepping right on the line...
PEDs I normally don’t care about but in boxing it’s totally different than other sport for obvious reasons....Ward did bulk up a little moving to 175, but nothing substantial from what I saw...Ward on the shelf for some time so weight gain as you age is not uncommon...I haven’t read or heard any credible reports about Ward and suspected ped use....
Chocolatito/Sor Rungvisai?...though it’s just a few pounds, Gonzalez lost strength and some explosiveness moving up a division and Sor Rungvisai is a thick super fly, should go to 118....haven’t seen anything, once again, credible, on Chocolatito, though I’m not an expert on enhancers....
Actually thought Gonzalez won the first fight...such is the subjective nature of scoring in pro boxing...
The first one was all Krusher but I’m sure he wakes up at night sweating why he didnt knock him out and because he didnt he got mired in a lost. Like GGG draw. I hold GGG responsible he shouldve knocked him and the fact that he didnt he deserved the lost and now look him now. A forgotten cause.
Ward took time off just to comeback and beat top tiers, took classes from Roid Jones, got gifted decisions, had body crumble issues, ducked some, retired early.
You talk about chocolatito but to me it’s obvious he takes steroids. He is normally bigger than his opponents and faster without stop. He also like many have a collage of cherry picked opponents to puff their rep.
I dont think Sor was really bigger than him just a bigger slugger and more knockout punch. But there were several where chocolatito shouldve lost but got the decision. Cuadras to name one.
How can you say he won when he got dropped? And got murdered in the rematch? To me once you get dropped you lose the fight.
Gonzalez got knocked down early, but I think he started landing cleaner punches and moved a little better once his senses came back to him....been a while seen I’ve rewatched, but I seem to remember, like in several Sor rungvisai fights, the Thai fighter smothered some of his own punches and didn’t land as cleanly as chocolatito; plus, I think the judges scored the blood, because there was plenty of it coming from Gonzalez and he was a mess....
Just because you get knocked down shouldn’t mean you lose a fight, especially early as it gives the the downed boxer a chance to mount a comeback while he’s still relatively fresh and not down on the cards too much...I think Sor Rungvisai getting the nod in the first changed Gonzalez’ mindset for the rematch....Chocolatito probably felt he needed to stay close and brawl and that led to his inevitable demise and brutal knockout....
Once again, difficult for me to say anyone takes enhancers without credible proof....I suppose I have my suspicions from time to time, but I haven’t with Gonzalez, and as I’ve said before, I’m not an expert on PEDs....I’m not dismissing your thoughts, just not sure about chocolatito....
Don’t have much to say about Ward/Kovalev, the first was close and neither won 8 rounds...I realize Ward would have to get at least 7 to get the nod because of the knockdown, and I didn’t see it that way, but I won’t argue with those who had it for Ward....it was close and Krusher took his foot off the gas down the stretch...if we get into the second fight, that’ll be a whole other thread, lots of shyt going down in that bout.......
Cholitatito usually bullies his smaller weaker opponents but somehow Sor wasnt havent it. It was like he came to win at whatever cost. To me boxing is a macho sport and being knockdown is totally humiliating. For you to regain respect you HAVE To knock the other down too. Never in the fight did I see Sor really in trouble. Tired? Yea but you have to keep in mind he through a whole lot more power punches. To me chololatito didnt do enough to over power him to say he fought back. The fight was pretty close plus the knockdown you gotta give the nod to Sor. And your also forgetting and underestimating how good was that knockdown. It was sweet science plus Cholatito was no.1 in the world. No way was Sor supposed to be in there challenging him or knocking him down like that. I dont even want to get into the Tyson- Wilder fight.
Chololatito no doubt takes steriods. I am close to him and you can tell. As I said he is tip top though he is the same weight of his opponents but he is faster, stronger, doesnt tire. Usually boxers arent this strong unless they are on something. Most foreign boxers are. Almost all athletes and even celebrities are on something. Im not saying he’s opposition isnt but I think he is taking more and still having political power to back him up.
Now there are some athletes I suspect dont take. Mayweather being one of the few.
I forgot to mentioned fight two which is a major point of mine on how you can be winning but get robbed and still get paid less.
Ward hit Serge like ten times square in the nuts right in front of the black referees face and the ref did nothing but tell them to continue fighting and eventually stopped the fight not because the fighter couldnt take it but because he was giving him to many shots in the nuts. Now again, I think Krusher went soft here. I wouldve hitted him in the nuts as well and taken the blows better so the ref wouldnt stop the fight. But he got himself in this predicament by not finish Ward the first time around to which I think he knocked him out TWICE and still lost. Ward have had to win 8 rounds, going away! You kidding me!?
By the way, wolf, great dialogue, a good and lively debate...I appreciate the civility in a online world that sometimes lacks such a courtesy....
No matter how a knockdown looks, whether it’s a flash knockdown (broner over porter in the 12th) or a big devastating knockdown (wilder over fury, also the 12th), each knockdown is just ONE point...i respect your belief that boxing is a “macho sport” but it shouldn’t be scored by judges based on machismo...theoretically, lets say fighter A wins five rounds overwhelmingly with little doubt and lands 3 to 4 times more punches in those rounds...the other seven rounds could be close with fighter B barely squeaking out those rounds....now, it may look like fighter A should be the victor with his flashier work, but fighter B won more rounds despite those winning rounds being close....if fighter A had a few knockdowns that could even it up a bit, but my point is that each round is its own separate entity; winning clear cut, exciting, brutal rounds count as much as winning tight, razor thin, close rounds....
You made mention of being close to Gonzalez, so I won’t argue or demand to know how close, that’s not necessary and I don’t need to know the details unless you decide to disclose that info...you also admitted the first fight was close, so in my view Chocolatito getting the nod isn’t that far fetched....press row was mixed on the verdict along with some fight fans I know (I’d say a very slight majority thought Gonzalez did enough)...the rounds won by Sor Rungvisai were huge rounds, and the knockdown early put him in a good position to win...from my vantage point, however, he did get a bit winded down the stretch and let Gonzalez back into the fight...
...plus, the knockdown was practically nullified, from a points perspective, after the Thai boxer was penalized a point in the sixth for a head clash after a few warnings (the cut over choco’s eye in the third round, you’ll remember, was from an accidental head clash—that cut did Gonzalez no favors as I think the judges scored the blood as part of Sor Rungvisai’s onslaught, blood from a cut determined to be NOT from a punch)....
Though Gonzalez landed more punches overall and outlanded his opponent in 10 of 12 rounds, i agree the harder and more telling blows were landed by Sor Rungvisai (compubox doesn’t always paint an accurate picture) ....still, just my unofficial scorecard and opinion, I thought Chocolatito squeaked by and won a super close decision....
“...And your also forgetting and underestimating how good was that knockdown. It was sweet science plus Cholatito was no.1 in the world. No way was Sor supposed to be in there challenging him or knocking him down like that .”
— I respectfully disagree with the conclusion of your assessment...a judge shouldn’t score on suppositions....yes, a good knockdown; yes, Chocolatito was the champ and mythical pound for pound top dog...however, the story, the narrative, or what someone believes should happen in a fight should have no bearing on the way a boxing match is scored...round by round scoring, with each round standing alone on its own merits....I suspect, unfortunately, some judges may forget that at times...no one said scoring a boxing match is easy...and, sometimes, a judge has to remember which way a bribe tells them to score a round (I have no proof, I’m just taking a cheap shot at suspect judging, lol)...
Again, it was a damn close scrap...
Discussing and speculating who is and who isn’t juicing is a tiresome exercise because who really knows unless you REALLY know...I’m not naive to think nobody is doing it— it’s just an argument that’ll never end unless we have definitive proof...though I have a decent grasp of what is a PED and what benefits it can provide, as I’ve said a few times, I’m not an expert...and VADA, WADA, USADA, and the British doping agency are inconsistent, with all owning varying degrees of credibility...
Damn, that was one breath, hahaha....
About Ward/Kovalev:
In the first fight, ward knocked down just once, so 7-5 is all he needed (114-113)
“Ward took time off just to comeback and beat top tiers, took classes from Roid Jones, got gifted decisions, had body crumble issues, ducked some, retired early. “
Let’s examine:
Ward took time off just to comeback and beat top tiers— Kovalev, top tier; with all due respect to Paul Smith, Sullivan Barrera and Alexander Brand, those three are NOT top tier, Barrera being the best of the bunch
Took classes from Roid Jones— I know Ward looks at RJJ with reverence, but I’m unaware if Ward sought counsel from Jones on anything boxing related or PEd cycling...I suppose it’s possible, I just don’t know....
Got gifted decisions— check, if you think the first Kovalev fight was a robbery...I thought it was close and I agree when you say Kovalev has no one to blame but himself for not seeking the KO....Pacquiao/Bradley I, that was a robbery, Ward/Kovalev, a close fight, I scored 6-6 with the knockdown the difference for a Kovalev decision (FULL DISCLOSURE: I wagered on that fight at +155 for Krusher, made up for it by taking Ward in the rematch at -140)
Had body crumble issues— check, if you mean Ward’s injuries, especially his bad shoulder that affected other parts of his arm and made him a one-armed boxer in some fights...or, as you suggest, the issues could’ve been related to the use of PEDs, I just don’t know on that one...
Ducked some— I’ll just ask, who do you think he ducked?...I don’t ever think the plan was to clean out light heavy , just take on the top guy and call it a day...Kovalev and Adonis Stevenson both had arguments for supremacy at 175....would’ve loved to see Stevenson/Ward...
Retired Early: check, which I think was the plan all along
Ward seems like an okay guy, but i can see how he frustrates some boxing fans...
“I forgot to mentioned fight two which is a major point of mine on how you can be winning but get robbed and still get paid less. “
—Respectfully, I’m not sure I fully understand that sentence
That second fight was a total fckshow...Tony Weeks, normally not a bad ref, had an absolutely horrible night....I’m not giving back my winnings, but I feel I escaped losing that wager....
At the time of the stoppage it was close...I think at least one judge, maybe two but can’t totally remember, had Kovalev ahead (maybe one judge had it even)...both did good work in stretches, with Ward REALLY committing to the body, some would say, over committing under the beltline....it seems like Ward made the decision to throw caution to wind and decided to throw low no matter where his hands landed, as if he was saying you can’t call all those body blows low (i think that some were legit and some not so legit, therefore, kinda blurring the real effect it had Krusher, while also making Kovalev appear soft)....that’s what makes it so damn awful, Weeks allowed Ward to game the fight, and, in turn, game the ref...Ward did some good work, but all the questionable shyt taints what should’ve been a solid victory if he went about it a different way...
Take out all the bullshyt, and the rematch could’ve been a fight to remember...but Ward made us remember it for different reasons; which sucks for Kovalev because I thought he edged the first fight and was game for the rematch, just got outplayed by a savvy operator in the vein of a peak Bernard Hopkins, with his bag of tricks and subtle scheming...(Hopkins himself not young or fresh enough at the time he fought Krusher to utilize those trademark tricks)...
Rain out the MLB playoffs and I’m here writing long takes on boxing...thanks, wolf, this is cool...
Nice reply, before I respond got another platform? cuz i really hate this moviechat format.
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