Is it possible that the incest storyline was the beginning of the end?
Neil originally said there would be no incest. What or who influenced him to change his mind? Did this decision ultimately sour his interest in the show, and magically leave him ill equipped to produce a 2 hour finale within budget?
No. Laziness killed this show. NJ should have had six or eight episodes already ready to go. Instead, he offers a 2 hour movie for the same price.
shareNope. Why would that make him sour when he's the one responsible for it? The Borgias is Neil Jordan. Nothing happens in those episodes unless he makes the final decision, there's only one other writer for the show.
The context for that relationship was always that of "each other's ideal lovers" (as Neil Jordan put it), therefore the subtext was incestuous during the first two seasons.
If you look at television shows and executive producers, it's not unusual for them to backdown or backout after a few seasons. A show like Dexter had 3 or 4 different people running it during various seasons. I guess, loss of interest is pretty par for the course.
incest had nothing to do with it...Neil never said he didn't like the incest angle...He said they weren't going there at the time, and he probably meant it but minds/plans change, and also over the 2 seasons there was a big call for it by many, and together with Francois and Holliday's chemistry Neil, like he said in the BTS that he couldn't just leave the incest in this hanging limbo so he decided to create a situation so it could go forward.
It's pretty obvious if you watch the finale and how those 2 are at the very end and what the show's very last words are, well it's obvious that Neil does like the relationship especially the forbidden/taboo love aspect, which is his writing forte..He even said he's happy with how C/L end and it's pretty romantic in a twisted Borgia way...So yeah incest didn't kill the show.
In fact C/L have a huge following, ask yourself why the ratings went up this season to some of the show's best, Many people have tuned in and tune in just to see those 2 and their scenes.
Couples have fanbases and as a couple they have a fanbase.
What really killed the show was the stalemate..Showtime even admitted that the creative people behind the show felt it was time to end it.
Neil never wrote a 4th season, He lamented he didn't have enough material, We all know that's BS...Neil wanted to move on it's that simple..He's gone back into movies and was even working on 'Byzantium' prob while The Borgias was still going.
Neil never tried, he wanted to turn the show into a movie and it was not cost effective for Showtime, they said no, Neil wasn't doing a final season so there was a stalemate and showtime agreed with Neil..End it now.
I feel sorry for the fans that think the campaigns are gonna get the show back, It wasn't showtime, It was Neil Jordan.
And possibly on a personal level he didn't wanna write the families fall and the popes death over 10 episodes and wanted to deal with it easier in a movie where the pope is already dead and it's his hell.
Ratings were going up, so it wasn't the viewers.
There was at least one (maybe two) more seasons worth of historical events with the Borgias to draw on for episodes.
Probably somebody at Showtime.
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I'm going to have to agree with the laziness answer, sadly. I don't think the incest hurt the show at all, if anything that brought up the ratings.
shareBorgia fans, thanks for your input! I saw ep 10 yesterday and was actually happy with the ending, but today I don't want that to be the end. I want to see more of the Borgia monsters together in all their naked glory. Cesare finally has a professional and a lover all in one, then poof it ends.
So, I'm in the denial phase
OK, look. I can see Neil Jordan feeling tapped out. Shouldering script work for three seasons of one show almost entirely on his own? And likely directing, too, if not more than a few of those episodes. “Laziness” does not enter into any aspect of this discussion. Lazy? After achieving all of that, even the implication that he, I guess, what? Let himself go? Lazy. It’d be offensive if not so laughable. If the show had any gas left in it, then it does seem odd to not bring in another guy to run the show. Or for Showtime to say, ok, take the year off the way HBO did for Sopranos. Yeah, another “lazy” one.
shareNeil Jordan should be beheaded!!!
(•_•)
can't outrun your own shadow
10 ep a year is already a feather-light workload, especially when there is a whole trove of material to start with called history.
If viewership was good enough to continue and he just gave up on it, then I hope networks boycott his stuff and viewers boycott the networks who don't boycott his stuff.
I think they simply ran out of money and decided to stop the show here. Is evident that ep. 10 was meant to be an opening to a new season, with many storylines left open on purpose:
C/L storyline, with the aftermath of Alfonso's death;
The Pope's storyline and his idea to create a papal monarchy
Cesare's storyline, with his growing ambition and his alliance with roman families (Colonna, Orsini, Vitelli) which is always in the balance¨
Micheletto's storyline was left open: would he retourn (pretty sure he would) and how? would he meet Rufio finally?
and also, Rufio is still alive and always ready to avenge Caterina - and do not forget, he knows that Cesare was actually plotting to kill Alfonso.
So, too many open storylines for a finale. As I said, I guess they just ran out of money. With "The Tudors" they managed to collect enough money for a 4th season - although, despite a shorter season 3, in season 4 of The Tudors the lack of money was evident - this time, they just cancelled the show.
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I bet it's due to creative differences. There is too many conflicting stories going around. Frankly if it's NJ saying he doesn't want to do a full season, I find it absolutely selfish to invest people's time and money and not finish the project, when it was stated (by him nonetheless) that it is meant to run at least 4 seasons. The finale for season 3 is clearly setup for another season. Don't tell me otherwise that is was the FINALE for the series. That's just bull*** Something is definitely fishy here.
shareI don't think there's anything fishy..Neil said himself he was exhausted doing the show..He had been working on 'Byzantium' and obviously wanted to go back into movies...C'mon he tried to turn The Borgias into a movie expecting a big budget for it too.
Showtime wanted a full 10 Episode final season but were worried when Neil himself told them he didn't have the material for a full season, So show listened to Neil's compromise(A 2 hour movie) commissioned a script, looked it over and saw it was not only not cohesive with the show, but too expensive to do, but Neil did not want to budge.
Show also has another Vatican show ready to go for next year with Ridley Scott, so didn't demand Neil stop being Lazy..Neil clearly showed the Finale to Showtime and convinced them it was a nice way to end the show.
The ratings were great this season..This had nothing to do with the audience..This was behind the scenes creative differences, which is the most complicated reason for shows ending.
Neil Jordan is an Oscar winning director, and Irons is an Oscar winning actor..I personally think if somehow Show managed to talk Neil into giving up his baby to someone else, Well Irons probably would leave with him...With 1 final season to go the network clearly just didn't want all that hassle.
Also with a movie contracts have to be renegotiated too and pay...It was just all too complicated.
If anything ask yourself did Neil sabotage his own show cause he wouldn't budge from his movie idea?
I think the answer is clearly yes.
I'm surprised I'm the first to mention this...
Game of Thrones killed it. While they are obviously completely different, one being fictional fantasy and the other being historical, I think they share many similarities, and were both at the same time slots. I'm not saying GOT is better, that's simply opinion, I enjoy both shows. But I definitely think it had a negative impact on the number of people that watched The Borgias, which was canceled because of low ratings.
They really aren't similar at all. They aren't even shown during the same time slot. The Borgias comes on at 10, not 9. The Borgias is also available On Demand a full week before it airs at 10.
I watch both shows and they have completely different audiences as well. The Game of Thrones board is really just filled with the lowest common denominator. The discussion on The Borgias boards is always fun and insightful. I don't see them as competing shows.
Nah I don't think Game of Thrones had a huge impact on the Borgias. Like someone said they're shown in different time slots. Granted Game of Thrones has grown exponentially more popular, but The Borgias still held a steady viewership since the beginning of it's inception, the viewership even increased during season 3.
I guess the slight increase wasn't enough to justify keeping it on indefinitely since it didn't take off quite as well as Game of Thrones did and the fact that I keep hearing NJ didn't want to continue the series anymore.
Whatever the reason it SUCKS HARD for us fans. Pretty much a punch in the gut. No way do I feel that it was a satisfying conclusion to a great series.
Piss off with that *beep* of a show and never ever imply again it got a show like Borgias canceled.Grow a bit and evolve your brain then rather than presume such idiocies.
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