MovieChat Forums > Dances with Wolves (1990) Discussion > I don't understand people calling this f...

I don't understand people calling this film "white savior narrative".


So it's a white man who's accepted in to a tribe of Sioux. The closest thing to it being anywhere near "white savior narrative" is him fighting the Pawnee alongside them.
When he go's to retrieve his journal, the army captures him and the Sioux save HIM and he then has to leave because his presence endangers them.

So what makes this is "white savior narrative"?
It seems like whenever in a movie(or book or TV series) that a white person gives help, no matter how minimal,(or gives any type advice for that matter) to anyone who's not white people dub it "white savior narrative" and when anyone who's not white does the same for a white character, it's "noble savage"(or "magical negro" if they're black). It stinks of segregationism to me and is right-wing sounding.

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Stigler.....I don't want to get into a bunch of flaming posts, OK? I hear what you are saying and think that some folks over-react to an implication that is not intended.

That being said, I do recall a short part from the movie "Reel Injun" (available from Netflix direct streaming). This film is about how movies have driven the perception of Native Americans around the world. In this film, the late Native American activist and film actor Russell Means comments on the movie "Dances with Wolves" and refers to the character Dunbar (played by Kevin Costner) as "Lawrence of the Plains" (a reference to T.E. Lawrence portrayed by the late Peter O'Toole in David Lean's film "Lawrence of Arabia").
I understood Mean's reference to mean that the Dunbar character was shown to teach the Sioux how to fight the Pawnee (when Dunbar says "shoot the gun" to the actor Jimmy Herman). I think Means takes offense because the Sioux had fought the Pawnee and other tribes for decades....the Sioux were war-like and quite successful. So, the film's implication that Dunbar was teaching the Sioux to fight was insulting to Means. My personal interpretation was that Dunbar was showing the Sioux how to shoot modern guns, not how to fight.
I'm not certain how this necessarily relates to the "white savior narrative" you refer to, but your post made me recall the film connection related above. I hope this is of some use to you.

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I know who Russell Means is and would not even think to condemn his general pov, but calling this film Lawrence of the Plains is problematic in several respects. Most importantly the implication that Lawrence of Arabia was a white savior narrative is inaccurate. Lawrence himself was certainly a white man, but one who immersed himself in Bedouin society, and I think it fair to say believed in that society and the injustice of their situation. Sure there is the business about him saying in the film that he is going to give them their freedom, but that is a complicated notion, not really coming from a "white savior" perspective. Instead I think what he says is that he can use his privileged position to help the people at the time he lived among and, generally, loved.

THat privileged position as a practical matter came from the role he played in connecting the Arab Revolt to the British Army's campaign, obtaining weapons and other logistical support to help the Revolt. This was a symbiotic relationship, which meant to be sure that the British were benefitting from it. But Faisal and the Arabs knew this and did not let that lead them to reject the help.

Dunbar similarly helps the Sioux against the Pawnee especially by giving them weapons. But he does so in part because he is in a position to do so. This does not make him a "white savior" as I understand the term. Dunbar does not confuse this act with some kind of moral or other superiority. He merely sees, however complicated the net effect, that he is serving a practical purpose, again to help the people he is with and, in general, loves.

Perhaps Means did not intend his Lawrence of the Plains reference to be a condemnation of Lawrence of Arabia, in any event. But I have never seen that film as some kind of white savior themed story.

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Kenny.....I agree with your assessment regarding both films. To clarify, I do not agree with Russell Means' comment about "Lawrence of the Plains" (or rather what I interpret his comment to mean regarding either film). I merely wished to comment on the OP's question about a "white savior" theme, not that I support it personally. That being said, I think it would be interesting for someone identify films that they feel do support this theme.

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Stigler - I agree with you - the 'white saviour' concept never entered my mind watching this movie -

to the contrary it portrayed one white person taking time to observe, listen,think, & learn instead of the usual cliche´movie full of white
people killing 'savages'.

Unfortunately, a lot of modern day people so despise white people that even a white person in a novel movie trying to do good is also mocked and played-off as trying to be a 'saviour'.

It seems white people really can't win;

'Whites' are a race of people bent on ruling the world and taking all for themselves, and when helping, supporting, and giving back, they are (mocked as) trying to act like saviours.

And this is not just regarding movies, but this dual-contrary mindset about 'white' people has been repeated throughout (recent) history and is on-going in the real world . . .

All ironic when you try to define what actually is a'white' person.

Apparently, after the turn oof the twentieth century, if you were born and raised in America, you are white and your country is the real menacing savage of the world, and any good that might come from whites is for selfish agenda.




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It's just sjw or Western culture that thinks any Western film with a Caucasian assimilating in another culture makes them a traitor so they think of any way to slur it imo. Both liberals and conservatives don't like that idea, it's weird.

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This film doesn't quite fit the "White Savoir" narrative, not as much as "Avatar" does.

But it's still kind of annoying if you think about it too much, because it's a film where the people who aren't white just seem to exist to help the white guy find himself. Which is an improvement on the old trope of the same people just existing to be shot, but still. It was made by the sort of people who'd never dream of making a film about an actual Sioux person, so they had to make a film about how a certain white guy finds self-actualization by bothering the tribe.

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People are just mad Goodfellas didn't win Best Picture that year.

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This was way better than Goodfellas, and more original, with better acting and better scenery.

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Wait, I get the two movies mixed up. Did Dunbar tell Kicking Bird to go get his shine box?

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They are political freaks, they hate our country, they are racist against white people.
F*** them.

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Because all white people are evil racists who committed genocide.

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Mao and Pol Pot killed millions of their own people in genocide and they weren't white people. So......

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Sorry. Only white people can commit genocide.

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Pretty sure he was ironic but I totally agree with you

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